Evidence of meeting #32 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
My gut tells me that it is as well, Mr. Chair.
I'm not hearing anyone. Do we hear someone?
Geoff Trueman Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
It's Mr. Trueman here.
We'll get back to you on that in writing. That's my gut feeling as well, but it's always good to double-check.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
I guess this is for the Department of Finance as well. As we move ahead and continue to face the crisis that's at hand, how are we taking into account all the various feedback that is coming in from Canadians? The support that has been offered is very significant, and the vast majority of individuals and families who need support are getting that support, but there still do remain some gaps, admittedly, as there naturally will be in a crisis like this.
How does the department take into account all the feedback that comes in? How is that noted? What is the process? How are gaps that exist rectified? Talk to me a bit about that.
I guess that question is relevant not only to Finance. It's relevant to anybody who wants to take it on.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Only Finance is going to have time to answer, because you're out of time.
Liberal
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Perhaps I may take a stab at that. I think it's clear that a vast range of programs have been rolled out in a relatively short period. On those programs, in some cases we respond directly to concerns expressed. In other cases, though, the programs have been adjusted. On May 15, for the wage subsidy, for example, the government announced a number of changes, both regulatory and legislative, as well as the extension.
Also, this week, we're engaged in very intensive discussions with businesses and others on the wage subsidy and so on. I think there's a kind of dynamic feedback going on continually, as one would expect in such a complex and changing situation.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
I was just going to make one last point. No problem. It's all good.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We'll go to five minutes for Mr. Cumming, and then Mr. Fraser will wrap it up.
Conservative
James Cumming Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I'd like to start off with the learning I just had from Mr. Fragiskatos on how you can not talk about something, but certainly he did a good job of bringing it up anyway, on Conservative principles. Well done.
Mr. Halverson, I want to start with you. A couple of weeks ago, you were providing testimony and suggested that on the CEBA loans there was significant headroom that was still left within the program. Can you give us some indication of where we're at with that? It can be either by percentage or by dollar; I'm indifferent to how you give it to us.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
The program has authorities to.... This is from memory. I would need to refer back to the numbers. I don't have them at my fingertips. There is no effective constraint at present. It would be 50% utilization. By design, there was excessive headroom put into the program, just to make sure we didn't run into any artificial constraints.
Conservative
James Cumming Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you for that.
I'm getting some feedback on the CECRA program and the attestations that the tenants.... The landlords are being provided a guarantee, so they're ultimately responsible. The concern is over revenues. They are having to estimate their June revenues, when that's something they won't really know.
Landlords have a great concern about the potential that there will be some clawback if these businesses start to generate some revenue and get over that threshold. Is there a way to deal with that issue? Has the department given that any kind of thought?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I'll take it.
Thank you for the comment. At this point, I will take it as feedback from the program. It's not an issue that I'm aware of as having been raised, but in the spirit of hearing the experiences that people are having, it's good to hear that.
Thank you.
Conservative
James Cumming Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I'm also hearing that with some of the applications to the program, a company that has a track record or a history and converts itself.... I'll use an example. I think there was a club or a course or something that had been around for 50 years. It might have been a not-for-profit. Then they converted into a public company. They'll have a new business number and be treated as a new business, so they won't qualify for some of the programs, even though the business pretty much remains the same.
Is the department aware of this? This issue has come up more than once from constituents who have called me.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Are we going to Mr. Halverson again? It's information that certainly James is hearing on the ground.
Mr. Halverson.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I'm conjecturing that this is an issue potentially around programs like the Canada emergency business account.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
In that regard, if it's a new business number and they need funding, they need to be looking at multiple channels at this point, including through the regional development agencies or alternative programs.
As far as I understand it, that situation would preclude the company from being verified within the CRA records. It would make it difficult, from an identity perspective, to validate that the applicants are who they say they are.
It's one of the challenges that come with a program that is providing tens of thousands of dollars in loans on a very rapid basis. It's for that reason that the government has put in place other sources of funding, so that people have access to them if they're not able to come in under the criteria established under CEBA.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Sorry, James, we're out of time there.
Wrapping it up is Mr. Fraser, for five minutes.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Thanks so much, Mr. Chair.
I want to dig in a little bit about the timing of any sort of fiscal update that could be provided. I know it has come up a few times on this committee.
One of the things I struggle with greatly is trying to predict anything too far into the future, given the conditions we're in. We see in New Brunswick the current story in the news about an individual who crossed the border into Quebec and failed to self-isolate and had contact with over 150 people. It's resulted in a retraction of some of the loosened restrictions that part of the province has experienced.
Obviously, severe public health measures that are put in place can restrict economic activity. I've found that some of the regular updates based on real data, which you've been providing periodically through this committee, have been somewhat helpful, to get that real-time transparency.
I'm curious as to what kind of indicators you're going to be looking for in the community before you think we're going to have a handle on what we know the world looks like, so that any kind of fiscal update will have reliable information that Canadians can depend upon.
Liberal