Evidence of meeting #45 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sir.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Well, to average them, you must have had the total. You need a numerator to divide it by a denominator.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We will ask them to provide the totals when they can, shortly after the meeting, if necessary.
This is your last question.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
What is the total amount that your organizations, including WE but not limited to it, have paid in expenses, benefits, reimbursements, fees or any other consideration, in kind or monetary, for all of the Trudeau family members?
Founder, WE Charity
Sir, we'd be happy to provide that to you, as the chair asked, right after the conversation. That's no problem at all.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you.
I'm going to ask you fellows to bring your mike a little closer. The interpreters are still having some difficulty.
We will now to turn to Ms. Dzerowicz, followed by Mr. Fortin.
Go ahead, Julie.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our two presenters today. Thank you for your presentation. Thank you for making yourselves available for four hours; it's highly unusual, so thank you for that.
I also want to say thank you for the tremendous positive impact that WE Charity has had on engaging youth not only across our country but around the world, and for all the amazing work WE Charity has done to reduce poverty. Thanks for all of that.
A lot of misinformation and false narratives are being floated around. I'm going to try to get to some facts, because I think Canadians who are listening need to get to those facts.
First, we're hearing a lot about a “billion-dollar” contract. It gives the impression that WE was getting a billion dollars and that this was the agreement with the government.
Indeed, can you confirm that it was actually about a $543-million contract contribution agreement with the government to deliver the Canada student service grant, with up to $43.5 million going to WE and up to $500 million going to students? Can you confirm that?
Founder, WE Charity
Yes, we can confirm that.
I would like to provide a little bit of context, because it's an incredibly helpful piece of context that has been unfortunately misshared.
Number one, the first time we heard about the $912 million was when it was announced. We had never been privy to that information before.
Second, the contract was “up to”, as you very correctly said, $543 million.
Number three, the “up to” is relevant both to the young people who would be participating and in terms of their volunteer service hours, and also relevant to the organization. This was a contribution agreement based on eligible expenses for eligible expenditures. The organization did not stand to financially benefit from this. It was basically an amount of money we received. Anything we received we'd have to use for the program or otherwise return to the government.
The other misconception here is that it really was “up to” the $500 million for young people to do service. Based on our modelling, the average young person may have done 100 hours, 200 hours; maximum 300 hours of service. Very few would have received the 500 hours of $5,000, so the true cost of this program would likely have been in the range of $200 million to $300 million.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Just very quickly, because I have a few more questions and very little time, in the way the contribution agreement was set up, WE Charity was not going to benefit from it. It was only to administer the program.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
How much money was actually sent to WE? Can you confirm that all those dollars will be coming back?
Founder, WE Charity
A total of $30 million was sent to WE, based on the ESDC process. As soon as this program was put into a political nature, we immediately decided that we would not be taking any of those funds. That was a decision that the organization made. We'd be losing approximately $5 million in this process. It was a very painful, difficult decision, but we felt under the circumstances that it was the right thing to do.
Yes, all the dollars have been or will be sent back. That's a process that's been under way this week.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Again, we're hearing from the opposition that it was as though the Prime Minister or a minister called WE and said, “Hey, do you want to do this sort of volunteer program?”
Can you just confirm that the first time you heard about, potentially, the need for a volunteer program being delivered nationally for students was on April 19, by Rachel Wernick of ESDC?
Founder, WE Charity
I'm happy to confirm that.
Ms. Wernick sent me an email. She had previously been to our offices three years ago. We've had multiple ESDC partnerships over the years. She's very familiar with our work. She asked for an urgent phone call and in that phone call she outlined the idea of a national service program. She asked if we would be willing to assist and if we would provide her with a proposal for her consideration. In that same phone call, I outlined that we were, in fact, on a completely different proposal, a different matter. In fact, I even expressed some reservations, but we sent this to her nonetheless, as per her request, on April 22. It was Rachel Wernick's request, and we fulfilled the civil servant's request.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
I have just two quick questions.
My sense is that there were a number of other organizations being considered, so the question to you was whether you would be interested in delivering this proposal and putting in a proposal. It wasn't, “Hey, you've got the deal.” It was kind of, “Would you be interested? Is this something you'd be interested in doing?” Is that what was presented?
April 22 is when the Prime Minister made the big announcement about $9 billion of aid to students. You submitted the proposal that same day. It was a very quick turnaround. Was the proposal based on the basic outline that Ms. Wernick provided to you on April 19?
Founder, WE Charity
That is correct. Ms. Wernick provided the policy objectives, and we fulfilled them through the proposal.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
There is another thing that I'm a bit unclear about. I see the contribution agreement in front of me, and it was signed on May 5. Was it signed on May 5, or did the agreement begin on May 5? If you could, just explain the logistics around all of that.
Founder, WE Charity
Thank you for asking.
The agreement technically began on May 5. We were working in advance with ESDC, putting in resources to help develop the program. The turnaround time was so tight and we were, of course, so passionate about helping young people at this time, that we got to work right away with the full risk and understanding that if this agreement did not go forward, we would be at the financial risk of doing so. We accepted that risk because we really wanted to help.
Liberal
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, Mr. Kielburger.
As you know, we do not have much time. You will forgive me for skipping the formalities and getting right to the point.
On the morning of Mr. Morneau's appearance last week, we learned that he wrote a cheque to WE Charity for about $43,000 to reimburse it for travel expenses.
Did you actually receive that cheque?
Founder, WE Charity
Yes, we did.
If I may clarify, it was a greater amount than the cost of his trip, but he based it on what conceivably a trip like that would have cost. I just want to correct a bit of the public record on that. WE Charity did not spend that to host him, but we did receive the cheque of that value, yes.