Finance Committee on Feb. 5th, 2020

[Kevin Lee]

At this point, it would very much be collaboration between the three levels of government to recognize and acknowledge that it is a huge problem and truly address the zoning regulatory and red tape issues that are moving forward. As well, in certain instances in Canada right now, the way the mortgage system is working means nobody's building on spec right now and so supply is down.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

In Canada, it takes 249 days on average to get a permit to build a warehouse. In the United States it takes 81 days. Canada's now ranked, I think, 61st or 62nd in the world for speed of obtaining construction permits. That's a problem for all three levels of government. Do you believe that this kind of restriction and delay on building is holding back our economy and our quality of life?

[Kevin Lee]

Yes, it certainly is. There's no question about it. There are some Canadian cities that are starting to do a good job on this and have identified this as an issue and so—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Which ones are the leaders of the pack?

[Kevin Lee]

Saskatoon, for example, is doing a very good job right now in moving things forward, and others are trying to follow suit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both.

We'll go to Mr. McLeod.

[Rebecca Alty]

We created a whole handout for the committee as well as all government staff to look at, because there are some unique challenges to funding and operating in the north. There is stuff about flexibility of timing. Some of these smaller communities, like Coville Lake or the community of Lutselk'e, are only accessed during the winter, with winter roads, or they only have a barge. As well, we have three or four communities that are only fly-in/fly-out communities and there's never winter road access. We need to ensure that we get responses on our applications in time to then be able to go and build.

To meet the tight federal deadlines is sometimes a challenge. Having that flexibility of timing and being able to hear back in quick order is definitely required, as well as the distribution of funds as base-plus as opposed to just per capita, because, again, some of those smaller communities are not able to do the cost sharing. There are a lot of different pots and being able to stack federal funding can mean the communities can actually use it.

Simplified applications and reporting is another challenge. Again, for a community with a population of 80, you have one or two staff members. With these long, cumbersome applications, they're not going to apply, and they're the ones who need it. In Yellowknife, we're the biggest community, with half of the population of the Northwest Territories. We had to hire somebody full-time to keep up, to apply for all the great climate change money that's provided by the federal government and to answer to all the accountability questions.

Another challenge is being able to streamline reporting and the broader interpretation of projects. When it comes to the gas tax, it's those broad categories, and then making sure that we meet the same outcomes.

Stuff like the public transit funding was much more defined. Yellowknife was the only community in the Northwest Territories that was eligible, and the only thing we really could do with the funding was buy bus stops. I don't think either of us is meeting our intended outcomes. That's not meeting our community priorities, and I don't think that's meeting what you intended as a federal government. Making your funding so restrictive limits what we're able to achieve.

Again, there's way more information in there. I'm happy to chat about this all day.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to everybody who presented today. They were very interesting presentations and I know everybody had short notice. I want to welcome the NWT Association of Communities. You also had short notice and travelled quite a ways to be here. You brought up very interesting challenges we have in the north. If we could find the resources and convince committee to put this as part of the recommendations, we'd be moving a little bit closer to the Canadian standard.

We all know that one of the biggest challenges for communities, organizations and businesses in the Northwest Territories is that the programs need to be sizable enough to address the northern infrastructure and services gaps, and also accessible and flexible. Could you talk a little bit on the importance of designing federal programs to reflect the realities in the north?

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I'm going to cut you off because I want to talk about the issue of housing. We heard a bit about it. I know in the north, because I travel, housing is at every table, in every discussion, and it is a crisis. Could you talk a bit about that? I know the city has made homelessness a priority. Can you talk about some of the urgency and requirements for investment in housing in the north?

[Rebecca Alty]

As mentioned, at our last point-in-time count we had 338 individuals who identified as homeless. That's men, women and children, families. We have a Housing First program. We receive funding from the federal government. We appreciate that. Thank you very much. There are approximately 24 units, and we have 100 people on the waiting list. They've been on the waiting list since we had the program rolled out two or three years ago. There's overcrowding. It's minus 45. You can't sleep out on the streets; you have to find somewhere to stay. Couch surfing comes with dangers.

When it comes to addictions, people are going for treatment down south, then coming back and going back to a house where all the drinking goes on, because we don't have enough housing. They go, they get clean, they come back and they're back into the cycle. Housing is so critical. It's our number one priority right now in the north.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I am sorry to cut you off.

Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for your participation.

I am going to talk to the officials from the CSN.

You are asking us to live up to the targets in the Paris Agreement. In your opinion, is that compatible with economic development and employment growth?

[Pierre Patry]

It is perfectly compatible. At the International Trade Union Confederation, or ITUC, they often actually say that there are no jobs on a dead planet.

We have no choice but to blend respect for the environment and social rights with economic development, in what is called sustainable development. There are many employment possibilities in new areas, such as energy transition and developing alternate solutions.

Clearly, this is also a union issue because jobs will be affected. We feel that it must all be done with a view to a fair transition and that there must be support programs for workers who may be affected by the economic transformation. In any event, that transformation is necessary. The future of humanity is at stake.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

So it is necessary, and the economic transition brings with it development and jobs.

You recommended that, in trade agreements, government procurement should include Quebec or Canadian content, in part. A few years ago, VIA Rail announced that it was buying new cars made in California rather than in La Pocatière.

Can you explain to us in more detail what you would like the government to do in that regard?

[Pierre Patry]

I will ask Mr. Bélanger to answer that.

[François Bélanger, Union Advisor, Labour Relations Services, Confédération des syndicats nationaux]

Canada has signed a number of trade agreements. They constrict us, but they also give us business opportunities.

Take, for example, the light rail contracts that are currently being rolled out in Ontario, including right here in Ottawa. The province of Ontario made sure that those two contracts had 25% Canadian content. In both cases, the rolling stock is produced by Alstom. One assembly facility was built in Ottawa and it will handle maintenance, in conjunction with the French factories. The same happens in Toronto where a facility has also been built. In existing signed agreements, that is a minimum, in the CSN's view.

For railway transportation, the federal government did not require any minimum Canadian content. That is why VIA Rail was able to award the contract to Siemens; there was no particular concern about Canadian content in the rolling stock.

Of course, those are lost opportunities. Alstom is an international player, but it is now here in Canada. The same goes for Bombardier, which has been here for a number of years. With Alstom, they contributed to modernizing the Metro in Montreal.

Partnerships are also possible. It doesn't have to be limited to one national company versus another. There are ways to negotiate this kind of thing, but that did not happen with the VIA Rail contract.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Okay.

[François Bélanger]

I must add that, in the case of the Réseau express métropolitain (REM), Quebec is not without fault. The REM went through the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, and they have no content standards for rolling stock either. That will not be the case in Quebec City. The new Quebec government has made sure that there will be at least 25% for the tramway. That makes sense to us.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

We have to ensure a minimum level of Canadian content, such as other countries require as a matter of course.

[François Bélanger]

Yes. In other countries, the percentage is often much higher.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Okay, thank you.

You talked a lot about tax havens and digital giants. The mandate letter that the Prime Minister sent to the Minister of Finance contains those points. We will see whether anything concrete happens. You can count on us to remind them about it.

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You're done.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

All right. The chair is very strict.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll go to Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you to all the witnesses.

Ms. Alty and Ms. Brown, thank you for the message you delivered this evening. It came through loud and clear. A housing crisis is plaguing the entire country, but especially in the north. The next budget has to include a considerable investment in housing. We got your message loud and clear.

My first questions are for Mr. Patry and Mr. Bélanger.

You talked about tax avoidance. In June, the Parliamentary Budget Officer told us that we were losing $25 billion in tax revenues every year through the network of tax havens. That’s a massive figure, and it’s the people with the most money and the companies with the highest profits that are benefiting.

You recommended that the government introduce public and comprehensive pharmacare. In a few weeks, I’ll be introducing a bill on that very topic on behalf of the NDP.

Can Canada really afford to keep giving huge subsidies to the wealthy through tax havens, instead of investing in people here, at home? We are talking about $25 billion, after all. If the government were to invest in a comprehensive pharmacare program, what impact would it have?