Finance Committee on Aug. 12th, 2020

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

No. It was very clear that the recommendation was that if we wanted to help young people by giving them a service opportunity, this was the only option to do it. The choice before us was, do we provide this opportunity to young people through this service opportunity or do we not?

With respect to engaging third parties, I just think about my own portfolio. The Canadian Business Resilience Network is a collaboration between the Government of Canada and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. That includes the CFIB, all of the local provincial chambers, the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business and the Retail Council of Canada. Making sure that we participated with partners that were closest to Canadians was what we strove to do to make sure we got out the supports we needed to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thanks, both of you.

We're turning to Mr. Julian, who will be followed by Mr. Poilievre.

Mr. Julian, you're up.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks very much, and thanks, Minister Ng, for being here today.

I just have a very quick question off the top to follow up on Mr. Fraser's questions. Did you or your department ever speak with the Public Service Alliance of Canada? We've had testimony, of course, that they were ready, willing and able and civil servants were ready, willing and able to do that program.

We've heard a lot of conjecture from ministers, but we have yet to hear from a single minister who actually spoke with the Public Service Alliance of Canada. Did you or your department speak with them?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I did not with respect to the social entrepreneurship program, which is what came to my office. It was what was reviewed by the civil service. Given my focus on small businesses, entrepreneurs and young entrepreneurs, that was my focus, and no, I did not speak to the civil service alliance.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay. Thank you, because there's a difference between conjecture and actually getting the facts, and the facts are that the public service was ready, willing and able to undertake the program.

You testified—and thank you very much for the detail—that in January you met with Ms. Marquez from WE. On April 7, you spoke with Mr. Kielburger. At either of those meetings, did you ask them whether they were registered as lobbyists around those meetings?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Just for clarification, Mr. Julian, it was my chief of staff who spoke with Madam Marquez. I had a 30-minute call with Mr. Kielburger on April 7.

I just want to assure this committee and Canadians that we abide by the rules set out in the Lobbying Act, and as you're aware, according to that act, lobbyists must register their meetings—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Yes, but did you ask them whether they were registered? Did your chief of staff ask Ms. Marquez whether she was registered?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Well, I expect that lobbyists follow the rules and I expect—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay. Then you didn't ask them—

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

—individuals and the businesses to comply with the Lobbying Act.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Did they volunteer to say whether or not they were registered as lobbyists at those two meetings?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Julian, you just cut out.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I asked whether or not—

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Julian, do you mind repeating that?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

No, not at all.

Did they volunteer whether or not they were registered as lobbyists at those two meetings?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

They did not. I don't know about the meeting with my chief of staff. To my understanding, they did not—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

—but certainly not at my meeting.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much for that.

I'd like to go into the whole issue of decisions being made either in the cabinet committee or in cabinet.

Mr. Fortin asked earlier about the shell foundation. I wanted to know whether or not you were.... You had also mentioned, in terms of the conflicts of interest, that you became aware of that. Were you aware of this proposal's probable violation of the codes of ethics of teachers across this country, and were you aware of the probable violation of labour laws and minimum wage laws?

In other words, prior to making that decision, were you informed about those probable violations of the codes of ethics of teachers, minimum wage laws and labour standards?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Well, I just want to remind everyone that the main objective of that discussion was to approve a program that was about services by students for not-for-profit organizations across the country, and that was the decision that was made.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

No, so I gather you were not aware.

Were you aware of the financial problems taking place at WE in the spring? Also, were you aware that the board had been, as we've heard in testimony from the chair of the board of directors, effectively fired? Was any of that information available to you prior to making the decision at the cabinet committee or in cabinet?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Those are not issues that were raised to us by the public officials who were supporting this file. They did not raise that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Were you aware of the inability of WE to actually offer service in the two official languages? You'll certainly know from media reports that this portion of the massive contract was going to be farmed out to a company with historic links to the Liberal Party in Quebec.

Prior to the decision at the cabinet committee or in cabinet, were you aware that WE was not actually offering services in both official languages and would need to hire a company to do that?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Well, we certainly wanted to ensure that the CSSG was responsive to the unique needs of the province of Quebec and that WE Charity had worked with a team of advisers and not-for-profit organizations from across the province.

It really was important that this service grant was intended to support as many students as possible and to help as many not-for-profits as possible during these challenging times and [Technical difficulty—Editor] was absolutely important that the organization was giving many opportunities to students and that they were recommending [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I'm sorry, Chair. Her feed seems to be breaking up.