Evidence of meeting #1 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
But the reason that wouldn't work is that what I'm addressing in the amendment relates specifically back to the documents that we're trying to bring back in through the main motion.
Conservative
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
Thank you. I don't know if you want me to do a point of order or just continue.
The fact is he is making an amendment to an amendment, so it has to be deemed to the amendment. What he is talking about is the main motion. If he wants to do that, he can make an amendment to the motion, but unfortunately it cannot be heard because there is a motion already on the table. I think this is a way of circumventing that, but I think the fact is it's out of order.
Liberal
Liberal
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Sorry, I thought you were going to make the comment, but obviously I misheard.
Mr. Chair, it's vital that we follow parliamentary procedure and practice, Bosc and Gagnon. Footnote 580 is the relevant one here:
Decisions by the Chair are not debatable. They can, however, be appealed to the committee. To appeal a decision by a Chair, a member must inform the committee of his or her intent immediately
—“immediately” being the key word—
after the decision is announced. The Chair then asks the committee the following question: “Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?”
If I remember correctly, Mr. Falk did raise his hand and make an appeal, but that came well after the fact, and that fact is that you recognized a motion to be in order, and Mr. Gerretsen was given the floor to speak. I'm afraid all of what we're now engaged in appears to be moot. That's not just my opinion; it's an opinion that aligns with the facts, the facts being based on what the record of practice that Bosc and Gagnon guides us with.
I think we ought to continue, respectfully, Mr. Chair. Of course, it is your choice. I think we ought to continue by allowing Mr. Gerretsen to expand upon and discuss the merits of his subamendment. I know a number of other members wish to raise their perspectives as well, and I would count myself in that group.
Liberal
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
What Mr. Fragiskatos just stated is not accurate. I did, in fact, raise my point of order immediately after you made your comment. It was you who suggested getting the opinion of the clerk, and I was just affirming your suggestion. Mr. Fragiskatos was completely off base with his assertion that my comment was out of order.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, on a point of order, it was not immediate. We can go back to the record. I know Mr. Falk is an experienced member, but he will recollect, I hope, that it was not an immediate appeal. Bosc and Gagnon is very clear that the appeal has to be immediate.
Mr. Chair, you recognized that Mr. Gerretsen's subamendment was in order. For that reason, I think we are not focused on the right thing here. We need to be talking about the subamendment.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
My concern is that it takes the flow out of the motion. I do believe the motion is in order, but it's misplaced. I will stand by my original decision and state that other changes are going to have to be made in the original motion to make it flow if this one carries. If this one doesn't carry, then no worries.
NDP
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
I have one more point of order, Mr. Chair. It's brief.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
No one uttered the phrase “challenge the chair”. No one formally put that on the record. As I said already—and I think it's a critical point that I'm emphasizing—Mr. Gerretsen had begun speaking after you recognized his subamendment to be in order. Again, respectfully, I appreciate that Mr. Falk disagrees, but it's out of line with recognized practice.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I hear you and I do know the challenge to the chair had to come earlier.
Mr. MacGregor, I'll hear your point, and then we'll go back to the discussion on this and vote on it.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
I have Mr. Poilievre's motion in front of me. I have the amendment by Mr. Kelloway.
Mr. Chair, I have a question. When is Mr. Gerretsen's subamendment going to be electronically distributed to the committee so we can have everything in front of us?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Mr. Gerretsen, have you sent that subamendment to people yet?
Madam Clerk, you don't have it yet, do you? Okay.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Double-check on that right now. We'll just hold on for a minute. In the meantime we can talk about the weather on the Charlotte Islands.
NDP
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Yes, I know. It's not good.
Any word on them whether they sent it, Mark?
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Sorry if there was some confusion. My staff were originally going to do it, but it is on its way to the clerk.