Finance Committee on Oct. 8th, 2020

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you. I'm just confirming that my staff are sending that out, so everybody should have that shortly. It'll go via the clerk.

I'll get back to what I was saying previously. I'm trying to find a solution here as to how the information can be transmitted back to committee in a way that is going to have the proper—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mrs. Vecchio.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Just looking at the procedural stuff, since the subamendment is not in order—it includes suspending debate on the main motion—can we check on that? We have an amendment, a subamendment, but this is actually another amendment. He's saying it's a subamendment, but how many amendments should we be going into?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It is in order, I believe, unless somebody can give me a reason it's not. It's just to back up a little bit, Karen, or Mrs. Vecchio—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Karen's good.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

The original motion came in from Mr. Poilievre, and I know you came in a little late—you're filling in for somebody else. Then there was an amendment by Mr. Kelly to basically pull the documents from the first session of the 43rd Parliament. Then there was the subamendment that was debated for quite a while, and that was defeated.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

There was the second subamendment, and that was defeated. This is a third subamendment. The subamendment is allowed. It wouldn't be allowed if it were attempting to do the same thing as any of the subamendments that were defeated. This one is substantially different from the other subamendments that were debated, so I do see it as an order, unless the clerk sees something different here.

The floor is yours, Mr Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just getting back to—

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I beg to differ on your ruling there. A subamendment cannot significantly alter the intent of the original amendment or the original motion, and this certainly does that. It's a significant departure from what the motion and the amendment are, and I think you need to rule it out of order. I'd like to have the clerk weigh in on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'll give my comments on that, Mr. Falk.

The intention of the subamendment is to raise the point of privilege with the Speaker. I don't want to read it, but if you go through it one by one and and the reason Mr. Poilievre believed there was a point of privilege there, you'll see that it asks for certain documents to go to the Speaker. This does not change the intent of doing that, other than basically asking for further review, to make sure the documents are all in order going forward. That's all it's doing.

Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you.

I just want to say, I've seen this now on both the PROC committee and this committee, where—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Come on.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

—Conservative members ask the clerk to weigh in and make a decision. The clerk is not there to provide advice to the committee. The clerk is there to provide advice to the chair. The chair makes the decisions, and I don't think it's appropriate to be putting government officials in positions like this—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Were you on a point of order, Mr. Gerretsen?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I was supplementing the point of order that was previously raised, but—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

He was back to his speech.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

If Mrs. Vecchio wants to come in, that's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mrs. Vecchio, go ahead.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Chair, you know I have the greatest respect for you, but there is the opportunity for us to question the ruling of the chair. Thank you, Mr. Gerretsen, for your input, but if the majority of the members on the committee do not agree, we can vote down the decision and vote that forward as well, so that's an option. Please, no more personal attacks, thank you.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

This is not a personal attack; I'm trying to defend the independence of the public servants. Mr. Falk said he would like the clerk to weigh in on this, it is not the clerk's job to weigh in on the procedure, that is the chair's. I think that anybody—

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Unfortunately, Mr. Gerretsen, the chair asked the clerk for her opinion, so maybe it's—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Not on that matter, he didn't.