Evidence of meeting #1 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A recording is available from Parliament.

chair

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk  Ms. Evelyn Lukyniuk
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Alexandre Roger

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

It's interesting that Mr. Kelly has now chosen to join the meeting and offer an opinion through a point of order. Mr. Poilievre is still missing, and all Liberal members have been here throughout. I'll give that courtesy to Mr. Julian as well and Mr. Ste-Marie. They've been here throughout. They have not disappeared.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Kelly, go ahead.

As spoken

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Mr. Chair, first of all, this is debate.

Second, I note he's singling me out for maybe 90 seconds or so of being off camera.

Third, Mr. Gerretsen is way off topic. I ask you to keep members in order. Let's finish the debate on this and get to a vote on it.

As spoken

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Do I still have the floor?

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

This is a point on relevance.

You still have the floor, Mr. Gerretsen.

As spoken

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Thank you.

I am actually extremely to the point, Mr. Kelly. If you had been paying attention, you would know that.

I'm explaining why this amendment that you've put forward is problematic, in the sense that you ruled against the chair when he offered to you to use an opportunity to accept his ruling and bring forward another motion that covered this. You challenged him, you won the challenge, and now you're coming back and bringing forward the exact same amendment. That points to nothing more than political motive in challenging the chair. The chair is there to exercise the procedure, to make sure procedure is followed in a committee and to use their best judgment in an impartial way. Mr. Julian said in his comments earlier that this chair does a really good job of that.

You didn't like the ruling, and you challenged it. You don't challenge the chair because you don't like the ruling; you challenge the chair because you think that they've done something procedurally incorrect. It is something, Mr. Kelly, that you and the rest of the opposition are not grasping—

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Are we ready—

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Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Excuse me, I still have the floor. I have a lot to say, okay?

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay, I was just going to ask whether we were ready for the question, but you have the floor.

As spoken

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

No, we're not ready for the question yet.

I want to address Mr. Julian's point.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across in a way that you're interpreting to be disrespectful. I have a lot of respect for you. You have served many years in the House, and I respect that. I respect when you get up. You and I probably see eye to eye on more issues than you realize when it comes to things like basic income and a lot of other issues. I'm sure that we do. But I think, respectfully, you're interpreting my explaining the situation clearly in a way that maybe is getting under your skin. Tell me that I'm procedurally wrong. Tell me what is wrong with what I'm saying and the way I have addressed this.

I have just laid out exactly what happened—

As spoken

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

I have a point of order.

As spoken

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

I know, Mr. Chair—

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I'm sorry, Mr. Gerretsen. Mr. Julian has a point of order. I have to allow that.

Mr. Julian, you have the floor on a point of order.

As spoken

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Your ruling, of course, was that the motion of privilege be disallowed. The only way to actually get it through the amendment—

As spoken

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

This is debate—

As spoken

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

—was to override the chair.

As spoken

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, he should put up his hand and he should debate me. He has an opportunity to debate me.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Hold on, Mr. Gerretsen—

As spoken

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

With his vast experience, he knows this better than anybody on this committee, maybe with the exception of you, Mr. Chair. He knows he's debating right now.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Gerretsen, order. I will determine whether it's a real point of order or not, in a moment.

Mr. Julian, let's hear you.

As spoken

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Overruling your decision allowed for the amendment, which Mr. Gerretsen now says he supports, so let's have the vote.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I'll go back to Mr. Gerretsen.

As spoken

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

If you want people to take your word, Mr. Julian, then at least raise a legitimate point of order. That wasn't a point of order; you were trying to respond to what I had to say, and you're doing it in a way that you're just trying to throw one-liners out there. Do you know who does that a lot? Donald Trump. Somebody says something and he just goes, “Wrong”. You don't have to justify what you had to say there; you're just throwing out things, saying “Wrong” and you're not justifying it. Get on the speakers list and tell me why I'm wrong; that's what I'd ultimately like to hear.

Nonetheless, I just want to say, and this is what I have been saying.... Multiple points of order have been raised because apparently people are offended by the way I talk to them, but then we shouldn't take offence from what this committee witnessed towards the end of its last meeting before it was suspended. I am trying to get at the point that the chair quite clearly laid out a path to putting forward a procedurally correct motion. The majority turned that down and then basically, through this amendment—Mr. Kelly, that's how I'm addressing this point—are trying to come back and do exactly what the chair said, but you ruled them out of order in the first place. I think this is a slap to the parliamentary institution and the democratic procedure that we have, the manner in which all opposition members, not just Mr. Julian, conducted themselves on this.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I have Mr. Julian and Mr. Fraser. I'm not sure whether you're on the main list or this list. Mr. Julian, you were on the main list originally, I believe. Your hand is up here; I'm just wondering whether you're on the amendment.

As spoken

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Yes, I am, Mr. Chair.

As spoken