Finance Committee on Oct. 8th, 2020

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I would like to get an answer from the clerk.

[The Clerk]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, thank you.

Go ahead on a point of order, Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I am still struggling to see the documents. I don't know where they are.

I also call the attention of colleagues to parliamentary procedure and practice. We're being asked to make a decision here through a vote. We're being asked to put forward a view when papers and records are not present and made available to us. House of Commons Procedure and Practice specifically mentions that questions of privilege arise on matters of papers or records that need to be made available in order for members of Parliament to come to a decision.

We don't have access to those papers or records. Therefore, I think there are issues of privilege that are present here. I think it is incumbent on us to look at this more closely.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I think we're into debate here, but go ahead.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Just for the information of Canadians watching, these are documents that Mr. Fragiskatos, Mr. Fraser and all members of the committee have had since summertime. If they've lost those documents through carelessness, the clerk might do them the favour of re-emailing them the same documents. Let's be clear. These are documents that they know about and that they've possessed, albeit blacked out by their own government. They know exactly what documents we're referring to.

I would ask them to send an email to the clerk and say, “Hello, Madam Clerk. We've lost these documents that you gave us all these months ago. Would you please help us rectify our error and send them again?” That way members of the Liberal side can be up to speed on the documents that they've possessed for the last couple of months.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I heard a point of order from someone else.

Go ahead, Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

For the record, I don't see how Mr. Julian finds what I said offensive but not what he said offensive, especially since he's been doing all the heavy lifting for the Conservatives today.

In any event, I don't have the documents. I wasn't here in the summertime on this committee. I'm new to this committee.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Do your homework.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

My homework? You just introduced this amendment. I'm supposed to do my homework—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Read your briefings. It's not my job to brief you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, folks—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, this information is based on an amendment that Mr. Poilievre gave to Mr. Kelly to bring forward only 45 minutes ago.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Do your job.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

It doesn't even make any sense. I certainly was never given these, Mr. Chair. It would be great if you could make sure that all members of this committee.... I know Mr. Samson is here as well. I don't know if he has these documents. Maybe he wants the documents.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

There's no hand-holding. You're an adult. Do your own job.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think it would be incumbent upon you to ensure that those are delivered via the clerk.

Thank you.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I have a point of order.

When you shut the meeting down, I tried to say I have the documents and I'm also new. Perhaps somebody should have done their homework.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Someone's on the ball.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I believe, according to my information and the clerk, this went to all members. It says to please find below the link to the documents from the committee, government spending, WE and the Canada student service grant that are available on the committee website from the 43rd Parliament, first session.

There is the link. I would encourage members to look at that website and see if they are satisfied. I do hear that some believe that they don't have access to the redacted documents by the law clerk. Just check on that to see if you're satisfied.

Mr. Julian, your light came up there. I'm not sure whether you're trying to get in or not.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't think I have anything further to add.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are we now ready for the question?

Mr. Fraser.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

With respect to some of the interventions that have been made, there is a key point that I've referenced a few times that is still unclear to me, not having had time to review the links that were sent out and only becoming aware of the proposed amendment during this meeting.

The hitch that I'm running into is this. There was an abnormality in the disclosure process because of the timing of prorogation previously. I'm unclear about whether the documents that have been circulated by a link—which I had trouble finding on the public website; I don't know if that's exclusively an internal link, in which case we wouldn't have seen them here—are identical to those that were formally disclosed to the committee before prorogation.

The amendment discusses papers and evidence received by the committee, or something to that effect. I'm not clear on whether the documents available at the link provided can be accurately compared to ensure that they're the same documents that are being proposed to be adopted before this committee now.

I don't know, Mr. Chair. I doubt you have that information on hand.

Madam Clerk, I'm wondering if you can confirm that the documents you circulated by link are in fact the same ones that were uploaded. David Gagnon, I believe, indicated the uploading of the documents couldn't formally be completed because of the timing of the prorogation.

I'm aware there are many documents. I've reviewed thousands. I'm unclear on which set of documents we're voting on, which is really the source of my difficulty with the proposed amendment.