Finance Committee on Oct. 8th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Julian, go ahead.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, Mr. Gerretsen has the right to his opinions, but he needs to treat all members of Parliament with respect. I find his comments immensely disrespectful. He can make his point without personal insults or attacks.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

The point has been made.

Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I made this comment earlier, when Mr. Julian raised a point about personal attacks, which I disagreed with. I disagree here, too.

I think Mr. Gerretsen puts his finger on a very important issue. I see that Mr. Poilievre is missing. I see Mr. Kelly is thankfully back at the right moment. Either way, I want to remind all colleagues, Mr. Chair, that it is expected that we be on screen during virtual meetings.

Let me quote directly from the Speaker, Mr. Chair. His findings ought to guide how we carry out business at the committee level.

On September 24, Speaker Rota said, as follows:

Before we continue, I want to take this opportunity to remind hon. members, as we get into something new, that the members in the House have to stand to be recognized, which has been done for years. I would ask those at home to please turn on their cameras...

—those at home being members of Parliament, of course—

...well in advance and not wait until the last second. That is their way of standing up remotely. It makes it easier to deal with any technological problems that we may incur as we go on.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I have a point of order.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

This applies to committees as well, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You're next, Mr. Kelly.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

It's interesting that Mr. Kelly has now chosen to join the meeting and offer an opinion through a point of order. Mr. Poilievre is still missing, and all Liberal members have been here throughout. I'll give that courtesy to Mr. Julian as well and Mr. Ste-Marie. They've been here throughout. They have not disappeared.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Kelly, go ahead.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Mr. Chair, first of all, this is debate.

Second, I note he's singling me out for maybe 90 seconds or so of being off camera.

Third, Mr. Gerretsen is way off topic. I ask you to keep members in order. Let's finish the debate on this and get to a vote on it.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Do I still have the floor?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

This is a point on relevance.

You still have the floor, Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you.

I am actually extremely to the point, Mr. Kelly. If you had been paying attention, you would know that.

I'm explaining why this amendment that you've put forward is problematic, in the sense that you ruled against the chair when he offered to you to use an opportunity to accept his ruling and bring forward another motion that covered this. You challenged him, you won the challenge, and now you're coming back and bringing forward the exact same amendment. That points to nothing more than political motive in challenging the chair. The chair is there to exercise the procedure, to make sure procedure is followed in a committee and to use their best judgment in an impartial way. Mr. Julian said in his comments earlier that this chair does a really good job of that.

You didn't like the ruling, and you challenged it. You don't challenge the chair because you don't like the ruling; you challenge the chair because you think that they've done something procedurally incorrect. It is something, Mr. Kelly, that you and the rest of the opposition are not grasping—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are we ready—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Excuse me, I still have the floor. I have a lot to say, okay?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, I was just going to ask whether we were ready for the question, but you have the floor.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

No, we're not ready for the question yet.

I want to address Mr. Julian's point.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across in a way that you're interpreting to be disrespectful. I have a lot of respect for you. You have served many years in the House, and I respect that. I respect when you get up. You and I probably see eye to eye on more issues than you realize when it comes to things like basic income and a lot of other issues. I'm sure that we do. But I think, respectfully, you're interpreting my explaining the situation clearly in a way that maybe is getting under your skin. Tell me that I'm procedurally wrong. Tell me what is wrong with what I'm saying and the way I have addressed this.

I have just laid out exactly what happened—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a point of order.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I know, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'm sorry, Mr. Gerretsen. Mr. Julian has a point of order. I have to allow that.

Mr. Julian, you have the floor on a point of order.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Your ruling, of course, was that the motion of privilege be disallowed. The only way to actually get it through the amendment—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

This is debate—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

—was to override the chair.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, he should put up his hand and he should debate me. He has an opportunity to debate me.