Finance Committee on Oct. 8th, 2020

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

He already did it, but I'm going to ignore it in the spirit of collegiality, which Mr. Poilievre so ably talked about before.

By the way, I still see his absence here at the committee.

We need assurances. We need certainty—absolute certainty—that we are seeing the documents we ought to see as they've been put forward. We can't play guessing games, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Fraser talked about that; Mr. Samson talked about it as well; Ms. Dzerowicz raised this point earlier. I do not believe that we're ready to move forward to a vote here until all of these issues have been looked at thoroughly and analysis has been exhausted on the matter.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I have another point of order to add to that, Mr. Chair, if I may.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

Just in line with what Mr. Fragiskatos has said, I wonder whether voting on this motion is in order, when we don't know that we have the full document. I think that's really what I'm left with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Assumptions can be a problem. I'm operating under the assumption that the information that went to the digital binders and the documents in the transmittal letters are as the clerk maintains. Whether or not we've seen them, we certainly expect them.

I'm going to suspend for five minutes so that I can talk to the clerk on the side, because we need assurance that this information is available now or is readily available. I'll suspend for five minutes and will call you, Evelyn, offline.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. There's nothing like saying that life is complicated.

In any event, from the clerk's point of view in discussions, the committee will see exactly what they saw in session 43-1. They're restoring the e-binders. They will be brought forward and made available to this session. Part of the problem here is that if we want to see the evidence from session 43-1, we really don't know that evidence until we ask for it. Certainly, some of us who were on the previous committee have seen that evidence. That is the link that was available prior to prorogation. Everything that was available to the committee in 43-1 is there.

I don't have an answer on it. I don't think all the evidence was in the digital binder on the documents at the time of prorogation. I know that David went a few hours after prorogation to try to get it in the digital binders.

So I can't answer on that question, but basically what I can say is that the committee will see exactly what they saw on session 43-1. This amendment is asking for that evidence. As I said at the beginning of the meeting on my order, the Speaker would definitely need that evidence in order to make a ruling.

That's where we're at on the amendment. I know there may be some objections to that—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

A point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

—and I'll go to Mr. Poilievre's point of order, but that's the best I can tell you at this time. The transmittal letters and some 5,000-plus pages of documents should be in that e-binder that was in the last session.

Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Can you clarify where the e-binder was mentioned in my amendment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

No, the e-binder wasn't mentioned.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

It wasn't. Oh, good. So then that's irrelevant to the debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

But I think in fairness, Mr. Poilievre—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Poilievre should do his homework if he doesn't know what his motion says.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Hold on.

The clerk could restore the e-binder and make available all evidence that was in the last session and bring it forward to this one as well.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

To end my point of order, so what part of that evidence has not been made public yet?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I might have to ask for clarification on this from the clerk, but I think all of that evidence was made public in the last session.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I believe that to be true—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Good. That settles that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

—but we need that evidence to go to the Speaker as per this motion as well.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

To conclude my point, that's great. All the documents are public, and the Speaker, therefore, can acquire them. If he needs someone in the clerk's office to point him in the right direction, that can happen too.

Thank you very much. Let's go to the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are we ready for the question?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Fraser.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.