I appreciate it, Mr. Chair.
I was making the point that questions of fairness—and those questions are at play if we deny public servants the opportunity to come to committee, as the Conservatives especially want to do, and I hope we won't. Questions of fairness are ultimately questions of justice. I was talking about John Rawls, who is probably the philosopher who recognized this the most or who's credited with a theory of justice that's rooted in fairness.
I don't mean to quote philosophers in an arrogant way. We all have our interests and passions. Philosophy is one of my interests, but I don't use it as a stick, so to speak, here at committee. It provides me with a foundation for understanding the various questions we are seized with, including the subamendment.
As I said, by calling on public servants to come to speak, it offers them an opportunity to put to us the rationale for their decisions. If we say “no” to those public servants, then we are denying them their ability to speak. We are in effect muzzling them, and I used that word earlier. I think it makes sense to repeat that word. We are denying them free speech, free thought and especially fair legal treatment.
I'm using these words directly from John Rawls in A Theory of Justice, which is no doubt his most famous work, published in 1971 but still extremely relevant. If my colleagues have not had a chance to read Rawls, that's a good place to start.
He asked the question of what makes up a just society, and said a number of things, but key characteristics such as the ability to vote have to be entrenched, as well as the ability to seek office and also free speech, free thought, and especially fair legal treatment, all of which have to be encouraged. All those are the key characteristics of what a free and a fair society looks like and therefore a just society. As I said, Rawls's concept of fairness is ultimately rooted in his notion of justice. I'm bouncing it around, and I'm sorry.
To get directly to it, by denying public servants the ability to speak to our committee, I would submit to my colleagues in the opposition, who are holding this up, that we would not be acting in a just way. As human beings they are entitled to fair treatment, and therefore public servants coming to our committee to put their thoughts on the record should happen.
I think the subamendment is incredibly fair in that regard. What would we say if they couldn't come, if we denied them that right? We would be saying that, in effect, this committee has endorsed the notion that free speech and free thought don't matter. I think that this idea of fair and equal legal treatment that Rawls talks about is especially applicable here. We would be commenting on matters that involve public servants, but not offering them an opportunity to justify decisions and to speak to us.
I don't mean to single out Mr. Julian, but if Mr. Julian can't get behind this subamendment, I would be surprised, because I've heard him speak at great length on his respect and admiration for the public service.
I remember in the summer, when we had the Public Service Alliance of Canada at committee, the union that represents public servants in this country—and I don't think it's the only union that does so, but it is probably the most well known—Mr. Julian spoke glowingly about his respect for that organization and all public servants. He regularly pointed to his appreciation of public servants, who throughout the pandemic have contributed endless hours away from their families in the spirit of designing programs that are ultimately benefiting Canadians.
We are seeing Canadians now enjoying those programs, and I use “enjoy” in context because obviously we are in a pandemic. However, those Canadians are able to provide for their families because of things like the CERB, the wage subsidy and all of the various other programs. Businesses are allowed to exist because of the work that—