Finance Committee on March 2nd, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I call the meeting officially to order.

Welcome to meeting number 23 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. Pursuant to the order of reference of January 27, 2021, the committee is meeting to study Bill C-224, an act to amend an act to authorize the making of certain fiscal payments to provinces, and to authorize the entry into tax collection agreements with provinces. We will be meeting on Bill C-208 in this committee meeting as well. Larry Maguire will present his bill.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, which we've all become used to, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. Therefore, members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

We will not go through the rest of the formalities.

We will start with Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie's bill, Bill C-224. We will go through clause-by-clause consideration. I hope people have the bill before them. It's not like we're in Parliament, where we can hand around fairly short bills.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of the preamble will be postponed.

(On clause 1)

I will call for the vote on clause 1, which has four proposed subsections.

I expect you want a recorded division on this, Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Unless carried on division, yes, I will call for recorded divisions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Shall clause 1 carry?

(Clause 1 negatived; nays 5; yeas 2)

(On clause 2)

Shall clause 2 carry? It's one clause relating to the Government of Quebec.

(Clause 2 negatived; nays 5; yeas 2)

(On the preamble)

Shall the preamble carry?

(Preamble negatived; nays 5; yeas 2)

(On the title)

I have to ask you at some point, Mr. Clerk, because I've never had a bill defeated at committee and I'm not certain what we report to the House, but I think we still ought to go through the title.

Shall the title carry?

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Chair, to my knowledge, the title cannot be changed in committee. That is all that is being reported to the House at this time, given the constructive work of the Liberal and Conservative parties.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thanks for that advice, Gabriel. That's wise advice.

[Jacques Maziade, Legislative Clerk]

Mr. Chair, the committee can vote on the title.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Regardless of whether the title carries or not, how do we handle reporting to the House if it's defeated? Does the chair just report to the House that the bill has been defeated? I've never gone through this process before. Imagine that.

[Jacques Maziade]

Yes, there will be a report handed to you, and you will table the report saying that all the clauses were defeated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You are saying that we can vote on the title, against or for, contrary to what Mr. Ste-Marie says?

[Jacques Maziade]

Yes, you can vote on the title.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Can I ask for a point of information?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You can.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Can you vote in favour of a title if the whole bill is defeated? This might be for the clerk.

[Jacques Maziade]

Yes, you can.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Shall the title carry?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I may disagree with how the voting is going, but I think if the Liberals and Conservatives have decided that this bill will not go forward, it would be bizarre to have a truncated portion of the bill go forward. The report will have to go to the House and there will be a debate on the report from this committee, but it seems to me that having a chunk of a bill that has just been gutted go forward doesn't make a lot of sense.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Thank you for that, Peter.

(Title negatived: nays 5; yeas 3)

Shall the bill carry? We do have to vote on it in total.

[Jacques Maziade]

As amended, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Shall the bill, as amended, carry?

(Bill C-224 as amended negatived: nays 5; yeas 3)

Shall the chair report the bill, as amended, to the House?

On division?

[Some hon. members]

On division.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Shall the chair report the bill, as amended, to the House?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I don't believe the bill has been amended. The bill has been killed—

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

You're right.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

—but you are reporting the committee's decision to the House, and there will be a debate on that decision.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I think that can go on division, that he report it to the House. I don't need a recorded vote on that.