Finance Committee on April 13th, 2021

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Roy, we know tourism is going to be the last major sector to recover from the pandemic. Consequently, really, it's the hardest-hit sector as well. Festivals and major events are a huge draw for a lot of communities. Certainly the Parksville Beach Festival in my riding is critical for drawing visitors to our area. We don't expect, even with vaccination, that we're going to see much international travel this summer.

You talked about the wage subsidy, the rent program and the need for a commitment from the federal government to have certainty that those programs are going to be extended to the end of the pandemic and to the end of the year, at bare minimum.

Can you also talk about the CEBA loan? It's at $60,000 right now. The NDP is calling for it to be extended to $80,000 and for the repayment date not just to be next year. That's going to be nearly impossible for any of these events and any of the businesses that rely on it. The NDP is calling for moving that repayment date farther out, to maybe 2025.

Can you speak about the importance of those supports to save your sector and any additional supports that might help you?

[Martin Roy]

The emergency loan, which amounts to $40,000 or $60,000, is certainly useful for very small festivals and events. However, events such as the Stratford Festival, the Montreal International Jazz Festival, the Quebec City summer festival and the Calgary Stampede have budgets of $30 million, $40 million, even $75 million. So we won't get very far with $60,000.

The issue is that these events have been running significant deficits over the past year. Some of these deficits are in the $20 million range, I believe. The Stratford Festival, for example, had a deficit of over $10 million. We're talking about millions of dollars. I don't think that the tens of thousands of dollars in the emergency account will make much of a difference, except for very small events.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Do you think that it should be expanded and that there should be a credit portion to the HASCAP and to that relief funding that's being given to those larger festivals?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Roy.

[Martin Roy]

I think that the most appropriate response is the one that we suggested. It's to create a program specifically for festivals and events. We hope that this will be included in next week's budget.

In the fall 2020 economic statement, the government acknowledged that it hadn't done enough for festivals and events and promised that the specific realities of festivals and events would be taken into account soon. We understood that this would happen in the budget.

We hope that the budget will include this measure, which would be a lifesaver for festivals and events.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, all.

We'll split about eight minutes between Mr. Falk and Ms. Koutrakis.

Ted.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

To all the witnesses, thank you for your presentations here. It has been very interesting listening to the discussion—the questions as well as the comments.

I'd like to talk to Mr. Chater.

In my riding of Provencher, in Manitoba, a lot of parents are talking to me about how their kids feel. One evening I was returning phone calls and talked to one particular father. He said he was completely exasperated. He had a son. He said, “In his group of four of five people, do you know what they're talking about? They're talking about suicide. I am so concerned about where this is all heading.”

I'm sure you're hearing a lot from your frontline people. What is the major concern you're hearing from the boys and girls clubs frontline workers, the folks who actually work with the youth in Canada?

[W. Matthew Chater]

I'd be able to speak from the perspective of Big Brothers Big Sisters, and I'd say they're seeing the same, listening to the voices of young people: that despair and not being able to see what the future looks like. Right now, there are so many young people, like many of us, who are just trying to figure out what life looks like beyond this pandemic. It's very challenging, particularly for youth, because the pathways that once existed might not exist in the future. Big Brothers Big Sisters and organizations such as BGC Canada and others really provide those opportunities for young people to see that future and how people are standing beside them and for them.

I'll go back to some of the data Margie shared around how young people are feeling in community, and making sure we continue to put those critical investments into frontline community services.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you for that answer.

Those are the kinds of things I'm hearing as well. I'm hearing it from the parents, but I'm also hearing it from the youth I talk to. They're looking at their future and they keep asking, “Is my future going to be a future of masks and restrictions and not seeing my friends, not being able to travel and not being able to do this?” As a politician, I'm telling these people, “Well, you know what? It will change,” but what they're looking for is a plan.

Could you make any suggestions? In the absence of a plan coming from the government, what would you suggest going forward?

[W. Matthew Chater]

From the perspective of Big Brothers Big Sisters, we'd suggest continuing to invest in community support services, as we shared throughout the presentation, the supports for our community services organizations and programs such as the youth employment skills strategy, and expanding some of the funding there. We know it has happened and should happen in the future, to make sure organizations such as the community services organizations we're collectively representing, as well as Big Brothers Big Sisters, are able to maintain services in community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, both.

Ms. Koutrakis, you'll have to wrap it up with your questions.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A lot has been said here by our colleagues on the Conservative side, especially where the rollout of vaccines and rapid testing is concerned. It's worthwhile correcting the numbers and to share them with our witnesses here today and with Canadians who are watching.

We've heard our Prime Minister say time and time again that we've really ramped up our purchasing, that vaccines are being received and that any Canadian who wants to be vaccinated will have the opportunity to do so by the end of September. About 8.1 million vaccine doses have been administered to Canadians, and we've delivered more than 10.5 million doses to the provinces and territories.

I know Ms. Jansen finds this funny. I'm really glad I'm offering some comic relief, but this is a serious issue.

In terms of rapid tests, almost 42 million have been shipped to the provinces and territories. Of those 42 million rapid tests, only 9.7 million have been deployed, per an article from the National Post, but if you go to canada.ca you'll see that 10.5 million have been deployed.

You'll also note on that site—which is great, and I invite everybody to check it—that some provinces are doing better than others. For instance, for my own province of Quebec, we've shipped 4.8 million rapid tests, and almost 1.9 million have been deployed and administered. If I look at British Columbia, where my colleague Ms. Jansen is from, almost 2.8 million have been shipped but only 357,000 have been deployed. One has to take a step back and wonder why.

The government is doing everything it can to make sure we have the tools needed to come out of the COVID pandemic safely and reopen our economy. We're doing everything possible and more, and Canadians know that.

My question is for anyone, but maybe specifically for Mr. Roy.

What do you think the current barriers are to the use of rapid tests by businesses? Is there a role the federal government can play in supporting the provinces and their rollout of these tests? What do you think the delay is?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Roy.

[Martin Roy]

The Government of Canada can certainly provide instructions or guidelines to the provinces or to the various public health agencies across Canada and encourage them to recognize that rapid testing is an option that should be considered to allow shows and festivals to resume. I'm not an epidemiologist. I work with festivals and events. It isn't my place to determine this. However, it's fair to ask whether rapid testing could be used in a show setting so that we can get back to business.

Recently, a test concert was scheduled to take place in Ottawa with the Bluesfest organizers. The plan was for people attending the show on Saturday evening to stop by the pharmacy for a rapid test between Thursday at 3 p.m. and Saturday at 3 p.m. Unfortunately, the area went into a red zone and the test concert was cancelled.

Could this option be explored further by holding test concerts across Canada?

Can we tie in the idea of rapid testing with public health guidelines so that testing is taken into account in the process of welcoming festival goers or audience members? This issue must be considered.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think I have time for a quick question.

If we were to step into provincial territory, the number one thing that would be said to us right away is, “Ah, you cannot touch public health; it's provincial jurisdiction.”

If the federal government took a position, stepped in and took over the deployment of rapid tests, what would you say to those who say we're overstepping our boundaries?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll need a very quick answer because we have to go to the next panel.

Who wants to take it?

Mr. Roy.

[Martin Roy]

In my opinion, we're no longer dealing with jurisdictional issues, whether the issues are federal or provincial. Right now, we need to solve problems and focus on the recovery of the various economic sectors, including tourism. We need everyone to reach an agreement.

[Josh Berman]

Chair, could I have 10 seconds?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Mr. Berman.

[Josh Berman]

I just want to say that much like the government transitioning individuals from the CERB to the CRB, it's an acknowledgement of the longer-term nature of the pandemic. An investment that recognizes the pandemic's impact on service providers is required so that we can continue to deliver services to vulnerable communities throughout this pandemic.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, and I think that is very good advice to end on, Mr. Berman.

It has been a very interesting panel. Your input about what you see happening on the ground is essential to the committee and to the government's ability to do its work. I want to sincerely thank you, on behalf of the committee, for all the work you do on the ground. I know that these days, you're in something like a constituency office here. You're dealing with individuals who come in the door in tears and don't know where to turn, so we want to thank you all for that and for all you do.

With that, we will suspend for about two minutes and bring on the next panel.

Thank you again, witnesses, for appearing. We'll suspend this meeting for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll reconvene the meeting for panel two.

As all the witnesses know, we are studying all aspects of COVID-19 spending and programs.

We'll immediately turn to witnesses.

We are a little tighter for time than normal on this panel due to another, later commitment for Parliament, so please keep your remarks to about five minutes.

We'll start with the Canadian Aquaculture Industry Alliance. Mr. Kennedy, president and CEO, the floor is yours.

[Tim Kennedy, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Aquaculture Industry Alliance]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Hello, members of the committee. It's great to be here with you tonight, and I hope you're all doing well. I want to say, especially, thank you for your service to Canadians during this really difficult time.

I'd like to start by painting a COVID recovery vision for coastal Canada: coastal and indigenous communities thriving; new schools, new community centres and hospitals being built; young people returning; men and women equally represented in the workforce with a sense of purpose and excitement in their work and pride in their jobs; a sense of a future of great hope and opportunity; Canadian innovation and technology being sent around the world; and collaboration with other nations in an enterprise to be nothing but the best in sustainable seafood production.

Members of the committee, aquaculture can and must be a critical driver of this pride and renewal. The aquaculture or seafood-farming sector has a huge opportunity for sustainable growth in a post-COVID recovery. Canada has arguably the most marine capacity in the world, and growth in demand for seafood is among the highest for any food sector in the world, estimated at 7% to 9% per year by the FAO of the United Nations. Aquaculture is expected to produce over 60% of total global seafood by 2030, and production, volume growth and jobs will largely come through aquaculture development.

The international High Level Panel for a Sustainable Ocean Economy, to which Canada is a signatory, says that marine-based aquaculture is the most significant solution for reducing carbon emissions in the global food system, and that for every $1 invested in the sector, there's a $10 payback in health, environmental and economic benefits.

The livelihoods of close to 25,000 Canadians depend on seafood farming, and the economic value of our sector is approximately $5 billion. These are good, high-paying jobs, mostly full-time, in coastal and indigenous communities where there are few other opportunities. Hundreds of small businesses across Canada are supported by our sector.

The agri-food economic table recommendations from 2018 highlighted our sector, arguing that we could double production by 2030 if the proper supports were put in place, but noted that “there are significant barriers to achieving this growth”, including the fact that “there is not a strong economic development focus for this sector within the federal government”. In fact, Canada has flatlined in aquaculture production for close to 20 years. We have lost over 50% of global market share to other countries, such as Norway, the U.K., Chile and Australia.

What has happened to this sector during COVID? The shellfish sector has been hard hit, as the majority of historical production went to the food service industry. The finfish sector—mainly salmon and trout—has a more even split between food service and retail. Retail demand for fresh fish has increased during this period, and we hope this trend will continue, as Canadians historically have not eaten the two servings of fish per week recommended by experts. However, overall demand has not returned to pre-COVID levels.

The agri-food economic table recognized that there is little economic focus on the aquaculture sector in the federal system. We're an amalgam of fishing and farming, and because of this, we fall through the cracks and do not have a department that champions our sustainable economic growth. We have bits and pieces from Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and temporary and sporadic supports through Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and this continued to be the same through the COVID period.

If there is one single thing for which I would ask for your support today, it's to enable our part in a strong COVID recovery. It's that you support the federal government in formally and finally identifying a department to be economic champion for the seafood sector. Our sector needs a restart in Canada. Saying yes to sustainably growing this massive opportunity for Canada and identifying and properly equipping a department to provide supports similar to those given to land farmers will provide jobs and sustainable food production and will continue to renew coastal communities.

The department can work with provinces, industry, indigenous peoples and others to develop a national sustainable development plan. The plan would set out growth targets, identify blocks, and build solutions to sustainably growing the sector in Canada. The plan would focus and drive the attention needed to recharge the sector.

The future of seafood for Canada is wild and farmed together. Both sectors, wild and farming, have come together to develop a vision for Canada's blue economy potential and for an important growth area for post-COVID: that by 2040, Canada should be the best-quality, most sustainable producer of seafood in the world. The result is a sector that strongly supports COVID recovery by contributing to thriving and flourishing coastal and indigenous communities.

I just ask one more time for your support to formalize, finally, a federal economic champion for the seafood sector as a major driver for COVID recovery.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Tim.

I know I shouldn't say this, but that very recommendation was made in, I believe, 2002 on a fisheries committee that I sat on, so I would say it's high time you had a department to represent your interests.

We'll turn to the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, with Mr. Stratton, chief economist and senior vice-president, policy; and Ms. Drigola, director, parliamentary affairs.

The floor is yours.

[Dr. Trevin Stratton, Chief Economist and Senior Vice-President, Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. It's a pleasure to be here today.

The Government of Canada and, indeed, all members of Parliament must be recognized for the work that they have done in providing support to businesses and Canadians during this unprecedented and very uncertain time.

The emergency supports that have been provided have spared many Canadian businesses from economic disaster and will help many Canadians through another challenging year. These pandemic-related fiscal supports have also come at an enormous price, and their cost will continue to mount for the coming months and beyond. Focusing government spending on the programs and policies that will encourage growth, create jobs and help businesses recover will provide the greatest return on investment for all Canadians. Doing so will allow us to produce the revenue needed to offset the extraordinary amount of public spending we have incurred and will help Canada achieve an economic recovery that is fiscally sound.

All of us understand the need for emergency spending to support people and businesses through the crisis, but we must avoid creating structural deficits that will mortgage the future of the next generation of Canadians. Despite the recent third wave of the pandemic, our strong GDP growth this year gives Canadians a taste of the economic rebound to come once vaccines are widely available.

Robust government stimulus spending to jump-start growth in the short term will likely be unnecessary, since pent-up demand is ready to be released once the pandemic subsides. That doesn’t mean the government needs to turn off the taps or start cutting critical programs, but this is not a typical recession that is a result of problems with economic fundamentals; therefore, it will not require traditional stimulus injections to help spur growth.

Instead, our economic recovery plan, including next week’s federal budget, should focus on addressing Canada’s competitiveness, such as our issues with productivity, business investment, and interprovincial trade and regulatory barriers. Addressing these issues will be the key to transforming our high growth rates from this year’s initial rebound into longer-term prosperity, job creation and an inclusive economic recovery.

At the same time, we cannot lose sight of the fact that more than one year into the pandemic, businesses, especially small businesses and those in the hardest-hit sectors, continue to struggle. These sectors will require continued support to ensure they can help propel job creation going forward.

I am joined today by my colleague, Alla Drigola, director of parliamentary affairs and SME policy, who will speak to the types of targeted support that will help businesses that need it most.