Finance Committee on May 17th, 2021

[Omar Rajabali]

All decisions that are taken on this are decisions by the government.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

They're taken by the government. Okay, then that's something we will have to take up with the Prime Minister. Accountability for $1 billion is, I would imagine, something all of us would support.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Now we are turning to Ms. Dzerowicz and then Ms. Jansen.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presentation on division 13.

Can you give us examples of what would be included under Canada's COVID-19 immunization plan? What would be expected? Is it to buy the vials? Is it for the contact tracing? Can you give us an idea of what might be included as part of this $1 billion of spending?

[Omar Rajabali]

Absolutely. The intention is not for the procurement of the vial side, because I think that's being done by the government separately. This component is for the provinces' and territories' rollout of the vaccine campaign. Things that could be included—of course it's dependent on the unique circumstances of each P and T—are mass vaccination clinics at large venues, training for workers at vaccine clinics, health human resources and reporting on vaccination rights.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I have a follow-up question on that. I'm assuming that it's distributed in a per capita fashion to the provinces and territories as well.

[Omar Rajabali]

That's correct. It's a per capita allocation, and the specific amounts are actually in the bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Ms. Dzerowicz.

We will go to Ms. Jansen, followed by Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I'm just wondering how you came up with a per capita number. That's my first question. What did you put in the estimate of how much you would need per person?

[Omar Rajabali]

It's the decision by the government to provide the $1 billion, divided on a per person basis, that gets us to that per capita number that's in the legislation.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Nobody, then, was looking at what the possible costs were and working it backwards. They were saying, here's a billion bucks, so just divvy it up among everybody, and then they can spend it.

I'm sorry, but that's the oddest way of doing things. The government, therefore, told you: You have a billion bucks; split it up per capita and let the provinces figure it out.

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I might mention, Omar, as well, that there was a floor for the smaller provinces and territories, and then it was per capita. Is that correct?

[Omar Rajabali]

There is no floor for the smaller provinces or territories in the $1 billion being provided to them. It is a straight per capita distribution for each of the provinces and territories.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Where's the per capita...? Where does the floor one come in? I know there's a program with a floor as well.

Oh, that was on the ventilation for schools. I'm sorry.

[Omar Rajabali]

I can't speak to another section, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I know which one it was; it has come to my mind now.

Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you for your presentation.

I agree with Ms. Jansen. I think the government would do well to not only distribute the money for immunization or health care by calculating costs per capita, but also by taking into account the aging population when it comes to health care funding in general. We know that the majority of health care costs can be attributed to caring for seniors. This method of calculating costs would be more appropriate for distributing health care funds.

Has your departmental team calculated immunization costs?

Are you able to tell us what percentage of the immunization campaign was covered by this billion dollars and the previous amounts?

[Omar Rajabali]

I can't give the percentage that's actually covered. All I can talk about is the section here, in terms of the payment, the PTs.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

If the government chose the amount of $1 billion, was it because it is a nice even number, or did it determine that the amount would cover 20% or 50% of costs, for example? I am coming back to the point that was raised earlier by my colleagues.

If I'm understanding what you said correctly, the department does not have this information. The decision to spend $1 billion was a political one.

[Omar Rajabali]

I do not have that information, no.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

Otherwise, in terms of immunization costs, as you stated, this billion dollars does not cover the vaccine doses.

Could you please give us the cost per dose for each type of vaccine purchased?

[Omar Rajabali]

I cannot speak to the cost per dose. I cannot speak to the procurement side. That is something that's led by the Public Health Agency of Canada and Public Service Procurement Canada, not us.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

That's fine. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

All right. That was a good attempt, Gabriel.

Thank you very much, Omar.

We'll turn, then, to division 15, which is the “Hibernia Dividend Backed Annuity Agreement”.

Mr. Millar, you're on. Just introduce yourself and tell us what your position is, Samuel.

[Samuel Millar, Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance]

Thank you very much. My name is Sam Millar. I'm the director general in the Department of Finance who covers environment, natural resource and corporate finance matters.

I'm here to speak today about part 4, division 15 of the bill. This division covers proposed measures that would allow the government to fully implement the agreement with the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador related to the Hibernia dividend-backed annuity agreement. This is an agreement that the two governments signed in April 2019. The proposed measures in the bill would provide clearer statutory authority for the Minister of Finance to make the required payments to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador from the consolidated revenue fund.

Just as background, the 2019 agreement provides that Canada will make annual defined payments to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador over a period of 38 years, ending in 2056. The purpose of the agreement is to maintain and enhance the province's right, under the 1985 Atlantic Accord, to be the principal beneficiary of the oil and gas resources in the offshore area near the province.

Thank you.