Finance Committee on May 17th, 2021

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Is there no real measurement that says something like you have to reduce your backlog by 50% in order to qualify for the funds? There are no strings attached, basically.

[Suzanne Kennedy]

Correct. There are no reporting requirements of that sort.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ted Falk.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Suzanne, for your commentary. Similar to Ms. Jansen's question, I'm wondering if the federal government is keeping track of the monies that have been forwarded to the provinces for COVID-19 subsidies.

Are we keeping track of the amount of money that provinces are actually spending on projects or for areas we've designated funding for? Do we keep a log on that? What's happening?

[Suzanne Kennedy]

To the extent that there are requirements, they are being tracked. There are some elements that do not have conditions to track. I'm afraid I don't have the details on that.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay. My understanding is that provinces.... I know that there have been hundreds of billions of dollars sent to the provinces in the last 14 months because of COVID-19. As just one example, my understanding is that one bucket of money was given to the provinces to support the aviation industry for scheduled aviation services to northern and indigenous communities. I know that not all the provinces spent the allocated amount that was given to them by the federal government.

There have been hundreds of program funding announcements made to the provinces. What percentage of that money have the provinces actually been spending for what they're supposed to, and what have they not?

[Suzanne Kennedy]

I'm sorry. I can only speak to the measures that are in Bill C-30 today.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

This is kind of related to that, because we're being asked to approve measures and we don't even know if the provinces are spending the money that they're committed to spending for other programs they've been receiving it for.

Ms. Jansen's question articulated as well that with the money they're going to receive for these health transfers, there's no accountability for this money that's being given to all the provinces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ted, I think that's more a question for the minister. It might be a good Wednesday question for the Prime Minister: Where's the accountability? I don't think Ms. Kennedy can answer.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are there any further questions?

That sums it up on division 12.

We're turning to division 13, which is Canada's COVID-19 immunization plan. On money spent there in each of the provinces, the same question likely applies here, Ted.

Who's on this one? Is it you again, Ms. Kennedy?

[Omar Rajabali, Director General, Social Policy Division, Federal-Provincial Relations and Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

It will actually be me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Introduce yourself first there, Omar, if you could.

[Omar Rajabali]

Absolutely.

My name is Omar Rajabali. I'm the acting director general of social policy within the Department of Finance. I'm here to provide an overview of the part entitled “Canada's COVID-19 Immunization Plan”. This is division 13, clause 198.

This measure establishes an appropriations authority payment of up to $1 billion out of the consolidated revenue fund by the Minister of Finance to provinces and territories in support of Canada's COVID immunization plan. Payments are to be allocated to provinces and territories on a per capita basis and can be used for a variety of vaccine-related costs.

The payment will be made in 2021-22. The statutory payment authority will ensure that funding is available to support provinces and territories in this last step to vaccinate Canadians.

I'll pause there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Who has questions on this round? We'll start with Mr. Falk, and then Mr. Fast.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Again, it's a similar question. Can we get finance officials to provide this committee with a list of all the project funding from the last 14 months related to COVID that has been forwarded to the provinces—the amount of money that's spent and the amount of money that the provinces have not spent for designated program funding?

Can we ask them to do that? That's not a political question. It's just to provide us with information.

[Omar Rajabali]

I can answer questions only on section 198. I can't actually provide a commitment on the part of other areas. I'd be happy to answer questions on section 198.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I think on that one, Ted, it may be a question that we want to ask either the minister or others. It is certainly a legitimate question: Where has the money been spent?

These officials are here on certain sections on the BIA and wouldn't have the ability to respond fully to that, but I think that's a question we need to raise.

We have Mr. Fast, followed by Ms. Dzerowicz and then Ms. Jansen.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would be glad to have you raise that issue in question period with your Prime Minister.

I have a question related to Ms. Jansen's and Mr. Falk's. There's a total of $1 billion being spent here to assist in ramping up immunizations across Canada, but this $1 billion is not part of the Canada health transfer. Is that correct?

[Omar Rajabali]

That's correct.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

All right. The provinces, then, don't have the same opportunity to complain that they shouldn't be instructed on how to spend this, because it's not part of the health transfer and it's not part of the social transfer. This is a separate transfer from the federal government, and one would expect that there would be significant accountability for how this money is spent, and reporting back to Parliament on how $1 billion of taxpayers' money is being spent across the country.

Would you agree with me?

[Omar Rajabali]

I can't comment on what my personal opinion is, but what I can say, with respect to the specific appropriation authority, is that there is the expectation to report to the citizens. However, there is no reporting back to the Government of Canada.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Why is that? Is that something the government deliberately did, or did provinces request that there not be a reporting requirement?

[Omar Rajabali]

This is the government's decision. I can't say why it took that specific decision.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

This was not driven by the civil servants, then. This was a decision taken by the government itself. Is that correct?