Finance Committee on July 20th, 2021

[Trevor McGowan]

As I said, the five-year holding period imposed by the rules enacted by Bill C-208 applies to the purchasing corporation and not the child. The child could sell within that period. It does not actually provide an effective rule that would require the child to indirectly hold shares for five years.

I should say as well that the government's news release that went out yesterday did not provide specific amendments that would be made. Rather, it announced a general set of issues that would be taken into consideration in the development of draft legislative proposals. Those included the transfer of legal and factual ownership of the corporation to the child, the extent to which the involvement of the business is transferred from the parent to the child, and some other measures like that. It was more a description of the types of issues that would be considered in the development of draft legislation than a specific set of draft legislative proposals that was announced yesterday. The draft legislative proposals, I think, would be released at an early opportunity and then subject to comments. The final draft legislative proposals would be released later on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, all.

We'll go to five-minute rounds.

Mr. Kelly, you're up, followed by Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. McGowan, Mr. Fast asked you many times in his opening statement who authorized the announcement or who decided to put that announcement out. The first several times, you didn't answer the question, merely referring to the regular process. The final time, you spoke of members of the elected government as making the decision on this announcement. By that I presume you mean the Prime Minister, other members of his cabinet, or the members of their offices who serve them.

Can you tell the committee who in the elected government decided to put out the first notice on June 30 to announce that you were not implementing a law passed by Parliament?

[Trevor McGowan]

Thank you for the opportunity to continue that. I apologize if my answers were a bit long-winded in getting to the point. To your question on who decided to announce that the amendments would apply as of June 30, as I said, it was an announcement of the Government of Canada. It's something that the department officials briefed on, the minister made her decision, and it was implemented—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Did I just hear you correctly that it was the minister who decided that you would delay implementation of a law passed by Parliament? Was that the Minister of Finance?

[Trevor McGowan]

You see, that's part of the difficulty in answering the question, because the announcement was not to delay implementation of a bill passed by Finance. Rather, it was to table a bill in Parliament that would, if passed by Parliament and given royal assent, provide that amendments, or rules in the Income Tax Act that had been implemented through Bill C-208, apply starting as of January 1, 2022. Of course, as we discussed, the amendments to the Income Tax Act were made on June 29. There was nothing that could be delayed on that front.

As I have said before, including before the senate committee on agriculture, the CRA would apply the law as enacted, because it is the law of the land, barring some future Parliament action.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Mere hours before this committee meeting was scheduled to begin, where parliamentarians could demand answers as to why this announcement of June 30 went out, there was a clarification to backpedal this announcement.

Again, the question I really want clarity around is this: Whose idea was it in the first place to delay? The June 30 announcement is pretty clear. It talks about the absence of an application date. It talks about implementing on January 1 following amendments. You said “the minister” in your last answer to me. Can you clarify that you meant the Minister of Finance?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Jovanovic.

[Trevor McGowan]

I see that Mio has joined in.

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

Yes, if I may, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

I think I would like to maybe go back to the nature of the announcement to understand the process here.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Please answer the question.

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

I think it's instrumental to understanding the decision process, because what happened in this instance is no different from what happens in all other instances where the elected government announces that it intends to table legislation, if Parliament approves, to modify existing legislation.

Just to be clear, this is exactly what happened here with the announcement on June 30. It's no different. The process we follow is that typically we provide advice and options to the government. It's frank and impartial advice. The government deliberates. At the political level, it has its own set of considerations. We don't necessarily participate in those discussions. The government makes a decision, and we have to implement that. As part of the implementation, we continue to provide advice to make sure—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I'm sorry. I'm going to have to interrupt. You're—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'll give you the time. We'll go over the time a little, because we're going to have lots of time in this two-hour panel, but I want Mr. Jovanovic to have time to respond to the question.

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In this instance, when a decision is made to release that announcement, we want to make sure that the announcement reflects the decision of the government, that it is technically accurate, and that it is respectful of the role of Canadian institutions, including Parliament. That is our primary role and, to the extent possible, we hope we do it properly.

When it comes to determining who made the decision, it's unfortunate but we really cannot provide more answer to that.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

We've had about 10 minutes now of the question from my Conservative opposition colleagues, and in this time we've circled it down to a “minister” seems to have the decision. We can't confirm yet which one, but that was the question, whether it was the Minister of Finance.

Further to that, I take you to the June 30 announcement. This announcement speaks of the bill having received royal assent but not having an application date. Then it goes on to talk about amending it and starting on January 1.

I don't really even want to go down that path any further about what the amendments you may propose might be. We'd like to know who made the decision on that press announcement—which minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I actually think, in fairness, Mr. Kelly, the witnesses have said all they can on that subject. Any decision is by executive council as a whole. Whatever specific minister helped make the decision, it's a matter of cabinet decision.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Did cabinet make the decision?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Well, it's the executive council, at the end of the day. You know that. You've been in cabinet.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

This was a decision of cabinet, not of the department.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I don't know if you want to add anything further on that, Mr. Jovanovic.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

This was the decision of the executive council.

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

No, Mr. Chair, I think I'm fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

All right.

We'll go to Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the officials.

Mr. Chair, I will be splitting time with Mr. Gerretsen.