Finance Committee on Oct. 10th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome, everyone, to meeting number 104 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. Pursuant to Standing Order 83.1 and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, June 8, 2023, the committee is meeting to discuss the pre-budget consultations in advance of the 2024 budget.

The finance committee is honoured to be starting our cross-country tour right here in beautiful Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, the birthplace of Confederation, with great seafood, agriculture, tourism [Technical difficulty—Editor]. One of your local MPs, Robert Morrissey, is here with us from Egmont riding, and a number of MPs [Technical difficulty—Editor].

We will have an opportunity now to hear testimony from the witnesses. We'll hear from Prince Edward Island and how that testimony can help shape budget 2024. [Technical difficulty—Editor] in case you need those. You can access French or English on them.

Now we'll go to the witnesses. From Coalition Canada Basic Income, we welcome Trish Altass, research coordinator; and Marie Burge, community program coordinator. From the Construction Association of Prince Edward Island, we welcome Sam Sanderson, general manager. We also welcome Martin Roy, executive director of Festivals and Major Events Canada; Kim Griffin, president of the Greater Charlottetown Area Chamber of Commerce; and Ian MacPherson, a senior adviser with the Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association.

Each group will have up to five minutes to provide an opening statement to the members before we get into questions.

We will start with Coalition Canada Basic Income, and I believe Marie Burge will be providing that testimony.

Thank you.

[Marie Burge, Community Program Co-ordinator, Cooper Institute, Coalition Canada Basic Income]

First of all, we welcome [Technical difficulty—Editor]. This is really great. We've met all of you, and it was very cordial of you to come around to meet us. Thank you for coming here. All of you have met Trish Altass as well.

I'll move into our opening statement.

Coalition Canada Basic Income, established in 2019, is a cross-country network of experienced basic income advocates. We have worked in concert with the Basic Income Canada Network, Basic Income Canada Youth Network and local, provincial and territorial advocacy groups and networks across Canada to implement our common goal: a nationwide basic income guarantee, which we know by a lot of different names but we will be using one of those titles today.

We respect the rights and sovereignty of the first peoples of Canada.

By the way, we are meeting on Mi'kmaq territory. We thank the Mi'kmaq people for having accepted us here and continuing to accept us.

We make it a point that, when we're talking about a basic income guarantee, the first peoples of Canada have their own voice in this. We can come back to that at any time if you want to. We commit to listening and working in solidarity with indigenous peoples in a spirit of reconciliation as we advocate for a basic income for all.

What is guaranteed basic income? A basic income is a periodic unconditional cash payment provided by government to individuals, based on residency and recipient needs, to have their basic needs met and to live in dignity regardless of their work status. GBI is different from universal basic income, UBI, which is universal in that it's paid out to all regardless of income. GBI also is universal, but that is because it is paid to all persons who need it to bring them up to the official poverty line established by an agreed measure, and in Canada that happens to be the market basket measure. Guaranteed basic income is designed to complement other elements of the social safety net, not replace them. Some perhaps will be replaced by it.

Coalition Canada recommends the development of a GBI for working-age adults aged 18 to 64, including migrant workers, temporary and permanent residents and refugee claimants. This would make it easier to align with the existing benefits, including those basic income-like benefits for seniors—the OAS and the GIS—and, for parents, the Canada child benefit, and also, Canada's disability benefit, when it is rolled out.

Guaranteed basic income is interjurisdictional. A federal basic income guarantee would be designed to harmonize with other provincial, territorial and indigenous social support and service programs. Federal, provincial and indigenous governments should determine collaboratively which programs would be replaced, if any, and which would continue when the livable income is implemented. Provincial employment and training programs, for example, and counselling and rehabilitative services and supports must remain and should be updated and expanded when needed.

GBI is gaining traction across the country. Everybody has probably noticed this for the past four years at least. P.E.I. is currently seeking to partner with the federal government. This may be news to some of you, but P.E.I. is currently seeking to partner with the federal government on a five- to seven-year province-wide demonstration program. It would be fully funded, with costs shared by the province and the federal government.

The proposition for a P.E.I. basic income demonstration program originated in P.E.I. at both the community level, through the work of the P.E.I. Working Group for a Livable Income, and in the political arena, through all four political parties. On P.E.I., it is widely recognized that basic income would greatly improve the well-being of Islanders, benefiting individuals, families and communities. For example, while not increasing the supply of housing, it would help low-income Islanders to have enough money to put a roof over their heads, which would be a great advance.

You know that's the same across the country.

Coalition Canada, since its beginning, has recognized that Prince Edward Island would be an ideal place to launch a demonstration of basic income guarantee. We're a little bit prejudiced in that line. We think it would work here, but the term “demonstration” is key. “Demonstration” implies a firmly established evaluation process to be in place on day one. Its purpose is the ongoing correction of flaws in the structure and implementation of the program. The evaluation aims to perfect the program in order to carry it forward. The small size of the P.E.I. population, along with many of the same characteristics as those of other provinces, makes it a natural for a manageable evaluation. Other provinces are studying the feasibility as well, such as Newfoundland and Labrador and Yukon.

The basic question is how to pay for a guaranteed basic income. Informed promoters of basic income, whether community advocates, politicians or economists from varied perspectives, know that there is substantial cost attached to basic income. However, all who know the meaning of “basic income” and its capacity for the betterment of all society will say it is worth every dollar. We'll be talking more about that later on.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you for that, Ms. Burge, and thank you for your advocacy.

Now we're going to hear from the Construction Association of Prince Edward Island, with Mr. Sam Sanderson.

[Sam Sanderson, General Manager, Construction Association of Prince Edward Island]

Good morning, and thank you very much for the opportunity to present here this morning.

To build P.E.I. and Canada together—between economic uncertainty, the high cost of living, a workforce shortage in essential industries including construction and a housing crisis—Canada is in dire need of a holistic and long-term strategy to get us on track to real growth and economic security.

While the federal government has recently announced various programs, such as the express entry program designed to target immigrants with high-demand skills and several initiatives under the national housing strategy to fast-track the building of new homes, these steps are short-term solutions to problems that require consultation, partnership and planning.

Construction employs 1.6 million people in Canada and contributes about $151 billion to the economy annually, accounting for 7.4% of Canada’s GDP. It creates a ripple effect of expansion in other sectors like engineering, manufacturing, agriculture, technology and retail. Construction builds infrastructure—water, electricity, telecommunications and transportation—which underpins economic growth, job creation and global trade.

We are calling on the federal and provincial governments to commit to comprehensive infrastructure investment. The federal government should advance the implementation of the national infrastructure assessment and develop, jointly with industry and all orders of government, a 25-year plan for infrastructure investment that includes housing and trade-enabling infrastructure.

It should address the workforce shortage. The federal government should quickly address ongoing industry-wide labour shortages by modernizing the existing immigration policy and points system to better reflect the workforce needs of the Canadian economy.

It should modernize procurement processes. Existing procurement processes need to be improved. They should be reviewed by the Auditor General, and industry should be engaged to ensure that practices better balance risk sharing between public contracts and the private sector, reduce red tape and accelerate approvals for critical projects.

The construction sector is essential to creating and maintaining the infrastructure Canadians use daily. This includes the foundational infrastructure at the heart of new homes and communities. Everything—from roads, power grids, water and sewer systems to schools, community centres and day care centres—is built and maintained by the construction industry. When Canada’s construction industry is strong, the country and its people are strong.

It’s time to build a strong foundation for growth. With construction as its partner, the federal government can build a stronger Canada through comprehensive infrastructure investment, workforce development and procurement modernization.

Canada’s construction industry is ready to become a leader in the transition to a net-zero economy and is optimistic about the promised investments in green building and innovation, including the clean technologies and clean hydrogen tax credits. However, the restrictive labour conditions attached to these incentives effectively discriminate against an important segment of the Canadian workforce: small and medium-sized companies. Equally concerning is that these restrictions were announced without proper consultation with industry stakeholders.

Now more than ever, the importance of including the people building Canada at the table on day one is key to the success of industry-related discussions and planning as we move forward building bigger and better communities. The Canadian construction industry is that strategic partner. Together we can build a strong foundation for a stronger Canada.

CCA—my partners across the country—will be hitting Ottawa for a national Hill day in early November. There will be hundreds of my colleagues campaigning and pushing forward our initiatives and mandates to work together with all levels of government to build a bigger and better Canada. There's no better time than the present to really bring industry to these tables.

Thank you for the opportunity to present here this morning. I look forward to questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thanks to your members for building our homes and for all of the jobs you create.

Now we're going to hear from Festivals and Major Events Canada with Martin Roy.

Go ahead, please.

[Martin Roy, Executive Director, Festivals and Major Events Canada]

Thank you, members of the committee. Good morning.

My remarks will be bilingual, so I invite you to use your earpiece.

My name is Martin Roy and I'm Executive Director of Festivals and Major Events Canada, which goes by the acronym FAME and represents over 500 festivals and events across the country. Today, I'm speaking not only on behalf of my organization, but also, and much more broadly, on behalf of 34 Canadian organizations and associations that are part of the #FutureOfLive coalition and are major players in the field of entertainment, from every province. I encourage you to identify organizations in your own area from the list I've provided to the committee.

On September 27, we held a press conference in Montreal to say that the situation is critical for the cultural sector, and that it is unsustainable. We made the decision to publicly appeal to the Minister of Finance to break the deadlock and resolve what could become a crisis within months. After reaching out to three successive ministers of Canadian Heritage and opposition parties, after raising awareness among at least 75 MPs, after obtaining letters of support from 29 of them, our coalition had no other choice. Allow me to summarize the issue.

The base budgets for two important Canadian Heritage programs that support the presentation of shows and festivals—the building communities through arts and heritage program, or BCAH, and the Canada arts presentation fund, or CAPF—have not been reviewed since 2007. Funding for these programs totals $50.2 million and currently supports more than 1,500 organizations.

To mitigate the issues of oversubscription and underfunding for both programs, the government provided $15 million per year in 2019-20, but for two years only. These temporary funds have been renewed three times for BCAH, but that is not even enough to maintain grants received at prepandemic funding levels, due in part to a 12% increase in the number of clients.

Clients who, before the pandemic, received over $100,000 under the BCAH program were only granted a maximum of $61,700 for 2023‑2024. That represents 40% less than during the 2010s, and the downward trend is simply accelerating.

A client who received $109,000 in 2014 would receive $137,000 today when factoring for inflation. Instead, they are receiving $61,700. That's a 40% shortfall in current dollars and a 55% shortfall in constant dollars. This can't go on. The downward trend must stop.

The CAPF situation is particularly alarming. Even with the temporary increase granted in 2019, the program’s budget has already reached a 20-year low in constant dollars. Worse still, this one-off increase has not been renewed beyond 2023–24. This form of programmed compression raises concerns among CAPF clients, who will face cuts averaging 23% starting next spring.

I can assure you that if these cuts materialize, they will create a chaotic situation throughout Canada's cultural landscape. The sector is already struggling to cope with inflation and a certain amount of destructuring resulting from the pandemic. It's not right to receive a letter a few weeks before an event, informing you of such a drop in funding because the overall envelope is no longer sufficient. Nor is it right to condemn all the associations that come under our umbrella to begging every year for the renewal or extension of investments that you simply refuse to integrate into the base program budgets. An entire sector, which has already had more than its fair share of problems with COVID‑19, is being undermined and jeopardized. Not only do we need to integrate the 2019 sums into the programs' base budgets, but we also need to inject further funds, because over 15 years, inflation accounts for nearly 40% and because there are more and more clients—at least 12% more in the last few years.

We therefore reiterate our request that one-off sums granted since 2019 be permanently integrated into these programs' base budgets. We are also asking for a proper historic catch‑up, i.e., an increase of $21 million to the Canada Arts Presentation Fund and $9 million to the BCAH program, in addition to the temporary sums renewed on a piecemeal basis since 2019.

I assure you that the prevailing situation is increasingly jeopardizing the ability of presenters to keep culture, its artists and artisans alive, as well as make ends meet while generating positive cultural, social, economic and tourism spinoffs for their communities. In your ridings, venues of all kinds, such as theatres and festivals, are at risk. I therefore ask for your support.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Roy.

Now we'll go to the Greater Charlottetown Area Chamber of Commerce and its president, Kim Griffin.

Please go ahead.

[Kim Griffin, President, Greater Charlottetown Area Chamber of Commerce]

Good morning. Welcome to P.E.I.

We too acknowledge the Mi'kmaq territory in which we work and live today and their over 12,000 years: past, present and future.

At the Chamber of Commerce, we represent over 1,200 members who employ 25,000 workers in the greater Charlottetown, Stratford and Cornwall area and across P.E.I. We provide services, opportunities and advocacy support for our members.

We welcome you to P.E.I. and are so glad that you came here. I apologize about the weather, but we need the rain.

On behalf of the chamber, we've specifically given our recommendations to you on what our members are telling us are their top concerns: the rising cost of doing business; the impacts of climate change and storms on business operations; and growing our workforce.

I want to share with you how you can help the work that we do to make a real difference, not only for our members and for P.E.I. but for our country.

On affordability for our members and our customers, I want to first touch on the increasing financial challenges of operating a business. Business is the backbone of the economy. When we thrive, we employ people in our region, we drive economic spinoffs and we improve the quality of lives in our communities. The persistent rise in operating costs, high interest rates, the introduction of the federal carbon tax in P.E.I. as we transition to a carbon-free economy and increasing labour costs are posing significant challenges for our local businesses.

In our recent membership survey, the increasing and rising cost of doing business was marked as the top concern among our members. We've heard from our members that this is one of the most financially straining years ever, with some concerned that they will have to close operations permanently. In fact, 10% of our member respondents expect their revenues to decrease over the next year. That number is double what it was last year and a steep spike from just 1% prepandemic.

This brings me to our first recommendation: that the Government of Canada provide greater affordability supports specifically for small and medium-sized businesses, given the significant economic challenges in operating a business today as we transition.

Recently, our chamber even joined over 280 associations across Canada in sending an open letter to Minister Freeland urging the extension of the Canada emergency business account repayment deadline. Some work was extended, but we've heard from our members that if we could have that opportunity extended even further, as well as access to the forgivable portion for up to two years to the end of 2025, it would give small businesses the opportunity to grow their revenues and to be able to afford the repayment without putting their businesses on the line.

As of September 24, 2023, there were 9,900 active EI beneficiaries on Prince Edward Island. The latest statistics show P.E.I. having a job vacancy rate of 5.7%, the highest in Atlantic Canada and the highest rate in Canada overall. This rate is also higher than the national average. We acknowledge that the EI program is an important safety net for our employees who have been laid off or find themselves out of work, and also recognize the importance of this program and how it integrates into our seasonal industries. At the same time, we are in the middle of an immense labour shortage. We want to find a way to more effectively work together to try to collaborate and implement permanent solutions to seasonal employment challenges, such as programs or incentives to bridge into year-round employment and re-skilling programs and support to aid in the transition to work.

With increased federal immigration targets, we also recommend continuing funding to immigration support services to ensure our province and provinces across Canada have the necessary settlement services and career supports for newcomers who are starting their lives here. Our members and programs participate and are instrumental in the success of our local businesses, and they are extremely dedicated to working with us. With the support of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, our chamber offers the P.E.I. connectors program, one of our most successful programs. The initiative connects newcomers with island employers and helps advance them in their career interests here on Prince Edward Island.

Our connectors also work with entrepreneurial newcomers to assist them in navigating through a new business environment and culture. We have seen marked success due to this program. In the last year, we've served over 721 clients from 66 countries and territories in the world. They made 1,300 connections with 274 unique volunteer connectors working together. They helped 107 new businesses launch on P.E.I. They hosted 16 educational sessions covering a range of topics for entrepreneur clients, as well as networking sessions and an advancing career connections event.

Last, I would like to talk quickly about climate adaptation support for businesses: storm relief and preparedness.

Last fall, our province experienced damage and impacts from hurricane Fiona, much like you're seeing in the effects of climate change across the country. We're no different here in P.E.I. Businesses need to prepare for impacts and to ready our workforces and our workplaces. Eighty-three per cent of our members recently polled had to temporarily close their businesses due to the hurricane—for as long as 14 days—and members saw significant revenue loss and infrastructure damage.

Our chamber was pleased to see $1 billion set aside for requests related to hurricane Fiona, as announced in the 2022 fall economic statement; however, since this announcement, we have not heard of any specific update on this support. We urge you to find a way that we can work together to help our local businesses plan for today, prepare based on the past and not experience the damages and revenue losses, so that we don't have to do this again for businesses.

Climate change is expected to bring damaging storms, and we have to find a way to ready our businesses and help our customers in P.E.I. We could partner on a “ready for business” climate change initiative. Hurricane readiness for business operations and buildings, and systems hardening for protection of businesses for the new hurricane season and climate change are absolutely key.

Last, as we consider our next meeting, we're so thankful that you came to P.E.I. to hear our point of view. If there is the opportunity to provide a bit more notice, we could actually go out and poll our customers and our members prior to your visit to give you current and up-to-date information as of the last month if you need it.

In conclusion, we thank you again for the opportunity to provide comments on behalf of the business community here in the greater Charlottetown area. We are open to consult any time. Tomorrow, as we depart for the Canadian Chamber of Commerce meetings that are happening in Calgary, we urge you to plan strategically to drive business for our local markets and our areas. Our chamber is strong. Our members are entrepreneurs and business leaders. They are people absolutely committed to the communities in which they work and operate and do this with their teams of employees driving the local economy. We believe in the work we do, and we believe in the role of government to drive programs and policies for the health of our economy.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Griffin, and thanks for the hospitality. A number of us did get a chance to get out to one of the small businesses and enjoy some delicious seafood.

That will lead me to our next witness. From the Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association, we have Ian MacPherson, for five minutes, please.

[Ian MacPherson, Senior Adviser, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association]

Thank you, Chair.

The Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association would like to thank the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance for the opportunity to present our comments for the 2023-24 federal pre-budget consultations.

We would like to suggest and present investment strategies that would assist the harvesting sector in adapting to climate change impacts and reducing our carbon footprint while preserving prosperity in our coastal communities.

The PEIFA represents the interests of 1,288 independent businesses on Prince Edward Island. Each of our owner-operator captains has a significant financial investment in their operations, which translates into a direct connection with our fishery and the desire to improve it now and for future generations. Our fishery, along with agriculture and tourism, is one of the top three economic drivers of the Prince Edward Island economy. Proportionately, the fishery on P.E.I. has one of the highest contribution percentages to provincial GDP when compared with other provincial fisheries in Canada.

As the past two years have shown us in Atlantic Canada and all parts of the country, we are experiencing climatic impacts not seen in our lifetimes. In an effort to address some of these impacts, we would like to solicit direct funding for four specific areas.

Number one is a reduction in the number of licences for some species through a targeted licence buy-back program.

Number two is scientific research to assess offshore area impacts of tropical storm Fiona on P.E.I.

Number three is cost sharing to enable fishing vessels to transition to emissions-reducing technologies.

Number four is funding for scientific research to establish baseline data in fishing areas where on-water wind generation is proposed.

A fleet sustainability program would reduce overall fuel consumption and the amount of gear in the water. The past five years have shown that ocean conditions can change rapidly in our coastal ocean environments. This is a direct reference to the change in the North Atlantic right whale migration routes in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Significant reductions could be achieved if match funding or loan guarantees were in place.

A minimum 50% reduction in groundfish, tuna, herring and mackerel licences would achieve the impact that is required to put these fisheries in line with available quota. From an environmental perspective, fuel reduction for tuna alone would be as follows: between 200 and 400 litres of fuel are consumed on the average trip. A realistic projection would be three to five trips per boat, which would reduce fuel consumption by between 175,000 and 350,000 litres per year.

Although tropical storm Fiona is now in the past, during the past spring several areas of Prince Edward Island experienced lobster catch drops in the range of 35% to 40%. We require funding for targeted research to determine if this is a one-year or a multi-year impact. We understand that similar studies were conducted in southwest Nova Scotia following hurricane Dorian. Full impacts may not be identified for five to seven years in relation to the growth cycle of lobster.

In terms of cost sharing for carbon-reducing technology, the PEIFA will conduct trials of diesel-electric hybrid units this spring under actual fishing conditions. In addition, other lower-cost technologies that are being tested may also lead to fuel savings and reduced emissions. Funding that assists in wider-scale adaptations can lead to significant reductions across the commercial fleet. These types of support programs have been made available in other sectors such as the grocery sector.

As a fishing organization, we are becoming increasingly aware of plans to install offshore windmills on the coast of Canada. Although these discussions are in the early stages, we would like to request that funding be allocated to establish baseline data for areas that are determined to be preferred locations. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada and industry associations have advised the PEIFA that these units will impact the marine areas that they are located in. A pre-emptive funding framework is required so that science-based decisions can be made in terms of where these units may be located. Particular attention must be paid to any primary fishing grounds that could be under consideration.

Again, the PEIFA appreciates the opportunity to present to the finance committee, and we ask that serious consideration be given to our requests. I would be glad to answer any questions the committee may have.

I'll just make a point of clarification, Mr. Chair. We didn't attach any dollar amounts, but we will do a written submission with some suggested funding amounts for the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you for that, Mr. MacPherson.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

Now we're going to move on to our rounds of questions from the members. Each party will have up to six minutes to ask questions in our first round. I am going to ask the MPs on the committee to also say where they're from, just so that everybody is aware of where we are coming from.

Personally, I am from Mississauga, Ontario.

With that, we're going to start with MP Duncan for six minutes.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning. Thank you for being with us this morning. The warm hospitality we got here last night and today is something that Atlantic Canadians are known for. We felt it here, so thank you for that.

I am from the other Cornwall, not the local one here but from Cornwall in eastern Ontario.

I appreciated the opening comments. They have been very good for the record and for the committee and the government to consider for the budget.

I had the chance to be on the Island earlier this summer. I visited Charlottetown, Souris, Wood Island, O'Leary and Alberton, and I heard a lot of very similar concerns, particularly around the cost of living inflation. A few have alluded to—which is great—the strain that the federal carbon tax is putting on the cost of business and the cost of living here in the province and right across the country.

Ms. Griffin, in your role at the chamber of commerce, one thing you mentioned in your comments was the federal carbon tax being an added cost to businesses here in P.E.I. One of the challenges that we have is actually convincing the government and those who are supporters not only of the current carbon tax but of increasing it that, when it's all said in done in the coming years, it could be as high as 61¢ per litre in the price of fuel.

Could you just confirm for the record that your members have confirmed that the federal carbon tax is adding to the cost of doing business in P.E.I.?

[Kim Griffin]

One of the things we would like to do is take the time to formally submit to this committee some additional information. I think that our members are very supportive of the transition, whether that be to net zero or to reducing our carbon footprint. We certainly hear that from our business clients, our customers and our members.

On top of the cost of doing business right now, post-COVID, with procurement challenges, timing and the effects on attracting workers and on the workforce, I think that we have many of our small and medium-sized business owners working double and triple shifts to try to make ends meet. I don't think that I would come right out and say that at this point. We would like to poll our members to add that, but from what our members have told us, the cost of doing business is their absolute number one concern, so any and all costs that add to that are a challenge for our business members.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Any tax increases and so forth factor into that point. I think about input costs. I think of Atlantic Canadians and the businesses here that are struggling. In my part of eastern Ontario, my family is in the trucking business. When the carbon taxes are being increased, we can confirm that individual families are out.... I think the number in P.E.I. is over $2,000 in carbon taxes for a family, and the second carbon tax coming in is going to be over $500 per family and household in P.E.I. However, you would be able to confirm to me that small businesses in P.E.I. get no rebates whatsoever. That's all added cost, not only in terms of their costs but in terms of the input costs of transportation to get food, manufacturing steel, lumber, all of that. There are no rebates or relief being provided. That's all added costs on top of the strain and struggle that's already there.

[Kim Griffin]

I think that's a fair point, and I think the purpose of our coming here today is to also just mention to this committee the opportunities that this committee has in terms of other levers that you can pull, from a tax perspective, in addition to program support for our members across this province and, I would argue, across this country.

I'm sure that, when I leave for Calgary tomorrow and as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce meets and has these discussions right up until Sunday, this is going to be number one on the agenda in terms of the small to medium-sized business component's increase in costs.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I will go back and maybe pivot over to Mr. Sanderson.

I always say that the government gets an A for announcement and an F for follow through. I think that's part of the thing, as well. We're imposing a carbon tax that's adding to the cost of doing business. Meanwhile, as we transition, we look to cleaner forms of energy, for example. In Nova Scotia, with regard to the tidal energy project, they've walked away because of the red tape and delays that the federal government is causing when it comes to that project.

Mr. Sanderson, in terms of commitments by the government and their actually being delivered, you mentioned meeting infrastructure programs and funding. Obviously, the residential market is big in P.E.I. The housing accelerator fund, to accelerate housing being built across the country, was announced in December 2021. Would you be able to tell us the number of homes or projects that have been funded in P.E.I. through that accelerator program?

[Sam Sanderson]

I don't currently have the exact number, but we do know that a few projects have come through that fund. You have to remember that, from an industry perspective, the availability of industry to build more is just not there. You can have all the announcements in the world, but if you don't have the people to build, it creates a challenge.

Again, going back to my presentation, it's important to have industry involved at ground zero. That will help with the deliverance of any projects or programs that will be announced and worked upon.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I would agree with that point, and the reason I say that is here we are. We talk about needing infrastructure programs to roll out, but if it's taking two years to actually go.... The answer, actually, on the housing accelerator fund is that it's been two years and literally zero doors have been opened in completed new units anywhere in the country.

The point I would make is that we have existing programs that are failing or that are very broken. It has taken two years to go from an announcement as well. The government can announce all those in a press release, but to your point, I think the big thing is about the fundamentals of actually getting dollars out the door. Some of the bigger macroeconomic issues are huge.

Maybe to that point about inflation, perhaps you could tell us, from the P.E.I. perspective, about the rate of inflation in the construction industry. We know that inflation is back up again to 4% and is actually going in the wrong direction. One thing I've always talked about, having been a former mayor, is the inflation costs for construction. Could you talk about what you've seen in the last couple of years of doing business and the impact of that on growth in the province?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're well over the time. Could you close with a really quick answer?

[Sam Sanderson]

Yes.

Everything we do today costs more money. From the person who is planting the tree to the person who is cutting it down to the person who is driving the truck to the person who is milling it to the person who is building the house—it all costs more. We've seen about a 30% increase in the cost of construction here in P.E.I. We've also seen about a 45% or 50% increase in the demand.

There are challenges all the way around.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Duncan.

Now it's over to MP Morrissey, please, for six minutes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a number of questions. My first question will be for Ms. Griffin.

Ms. Griffin, all three major industries in Prince Edward Island—agriculture, fisheries and tourism—are very sensitive to climatic change. All were impacted significantly by hurricane Fiona.

Do you have an assessment of what the cost of climate change is to some businesses in that area?

[Kim Griffin]

Thank you for your question and your comment. It's interesting: As Ian mentioned, when you think about it, there's an even larger group of small business owners when you add on our farmers, fishers and tourist operators from across the province.

I would offer this committee a follow-up note to provide that information in terms of what we received initially from our members. We have anything from the loss of hours in stores and businesses that were closed to the follow-up damage assessments from the business community.

I will follow up and get an approximate number on the climate change issue.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I would appreciate that.

As well, perhaps you could include the escalating insurance costs. I know that for my own home it has doubled, because we now live in a hurricane-prone area.

[Kim Griffin]

That's an excellent question.