Finance Committee on Nov. 17th, 2023

[Steve Vanagas]

That's great. Thank you for those questions.

Yes, Toronto has a great system.

On the question of provincial funding, our funding mix comes from predominantly three sources. One is fare revenue, of course. Second is property taxes, which are established by the local municipal governments. There are fare revenues, property taxes and the third source of funding, of course, which is the fuel tax, which car drivers will pay. It's a volume-based fee. Again, that level is set by the province.

There is very limited direct provincial funding. They provided us with relief funding during COVID, which was very important for us to get through the COVID period. We maintained all of our service throughout COVID, which is part of the reason why we've been able to recover so well. It's because we maintained that service. That's thanks in large part to the province helping us with that funding during that period of time. However, they don't typically provide us direct operational funding. We have these other sources that we draw from, and there's another miscellaneous set of other sources of funding that we would have.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

On international models, then, do you know of anyone else from a national level that funds operating...?

[Steve Vanagas]

It's a great question. I do not know off the top of my head. I think I would ask our team to look at that and get back to you.

What I would say is that federally the focus has been on that capital funding requirement, with the exception of the COVID period where the federal government did provide that temporary operational funding, which was tremendously helpful, but there's no commitment at this point going forward. The focus has been on capital funding, and the federal government makes a huge contribution on that capital funding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Vanagas and MP Dzerowicz.

Next is MP Ste-Marie, please.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to all the witnesses. Thank you for being with us. We have another very relevant group of witnesses. Their comments are very enlightening.

Before I ask my first questions, I'd like to make a comment. As this is the last panel of this week and of our pre-budget consultation tour, I'd like to take a few minutes to reiterate how important I think it is for the committee to be able to travel to each region to get a better grasp of the reality in each one and meet the witnesses on the spot. I welcome this effort. In terms of the committee's operations, it's also an opportunity to get to know our colleagues from each group better, and to forge better relationships that rise above partisanship. This doesn't happen often enough in the House.

Also, this fall, only two weeks had been set aside for work in our respective ridings, and committee members decided to devote that time to our travelling consultation tours. That's a good thing. In this regard, I'd like to take my hat off to our chair, who is the only elected official to have participated in every consultation, in every city. He chose to spend the two weeks normally devoted to work in our ridings playing his role as chair, which he does very well.

If we, the elected representatives, manage to do a job that's not too badly done, it's because we're surrounded by a formidable team. The MPs travel, but they are accompanied by the committee's staff, who do a remarkable job. I'd like to start by saluting Emma Fahey, our logistics officer. It was she who welcomed you here. Believe me when I say that visiting one city a day requires an extraordinary amount of logistical work, if only to book hotel rooms and halls.

In the back, upstairs, to the right of the room, are the two gentlemen who liaise with the House. The day before, they set up all the electronics to make sure everything's working, and then put all the equipment back in the suitcases. They are André Guindon and Tyler Thomas, who are deliberations and verification officers. I'd like to thank them for accompanying us.

I would also like to pay special tribute to three people whom I find extraordinary and who have been my ears and my voice during this week. They are the three interpreters: Ms. Sara Vafai, Ms. Angela Benoit and Ms. Kariane St‑Gelais, who is currently interpreting my words. I'd like to thank them for travelling with us and doing all this work.

When it's time to produce reports, if we're well informed and manage to be relevant, it's because we have two highly talented economists with us. They do extraordinary work. They are Mehrab Kiarsi and Michaël Lambert‑Racine, who also travelled with us for the two weeks. I congratulate and thank them.

Let me conclude by thanking our extraordinary clerk. The quality of the clerks in the House of Commons is very high, and we are undoubtedly fortunate on the Standing Committee on Finance to have the best, Mr. Alexandre Roger, for whom we must always raise the bar. Let me give you an example.

I almost missed my flight from Winnipeg to Edmonton, because there was a problem with my WestJet boarding pass. As the line of people experiencing difficulties grew longer, staff were removed to deal with the problems. Mr. Roger came back and told me he wouldn't abandon me and that, if necessary, we'd take an all-night bus to get me to the committee meeting in Edmonton the next day. This illustrates the level of perfection he brings to the committee. I'd like to congratulate the whole team. Thank you for helping us do our job so smoothly.

Having said that, I'd like to thank all the witnesses once again for being here.

My questions are for the representatives of the Alliance des femmes de la francophonie canadienne, Ms. Enayeh and Ms. Boutiyeb.

You put forward five recommendations. You said that violence against women is on the rise. Every week, we hear about cases of femicide. This is very worrying.

Why is it important to better protect francophone women in minority situations?

[Nour Enayeh]

Thank you for your question.

I'll give you a very concrete example. We're in Vancouver, British Columbia, and there's a francophone organization that deals with women who are victims of violence. We have a help line, but it will be closed in March 2024, in a few months' time, due to lack of funding. It's the only hotline that offers service in French to francophone women who are victims of violence in British Columbia. This gives you a very concrete idea of the urgency of the situation and the importance of this issue.

Since the pandemic, gender-based violence against women has increased, and French-language services are decreasing. These women need to be served in their own language.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you

Is there core funding for this helpline?

[Nour Enayeh]

No, there is no core funding. Seven of our organizations receive no core funding at all from the province. Without core funding, many organizations cannot survive.

[Soukaina Boutiyeb, Executive Director, Alliance des femmes de la francophonie canadienne]

If I may, I'd like to add another detail.

The reality on the ground is that Nunavut, the Northwest Territories and Newfoundland and Labrador have no francophone women's organizations, due to a lack of funding. Some organizations in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, for example, have no core funding at all. This means that an organization that is there to give a voice to these women doesn't have the necessary resources. In these communities, there is no organization to defend the rights of francophone and Acadian women.

I'd also like to tell you about something that happened to us during the pandemic, and that has to do with the increase in violence. During the pandemic, our organization received a suspicious package, addressed to our president and signed by a group—some crude words were used. They wanted to remind us that a woman's place was in the kitchen, and told us we'd be beaten if we didn't listen. It was a very difficult time for the members of our organization. In fact, I still get goose bumps. We had to deal with this during the pandemic. The police had to take charge of the situation, but unfortunately they weren't able to determine which group the package came from. This kind of violence exists all around us. We agree that it goes beyond a comment made on social networks. Someone took the time to send us a package. So the problem is becoming more and more serious.

The reality is that women's organizations don't have access to adequate funding or services for prevention, awareness-raising and the creation of shelters or halfway houses. It doesn't exist. It exists in Ontario, but outside Ontario, it's unfortunately not a reality for francophone and Acadian women.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Enayeh, Ms. Boutiyeb and Mr. Ste‑Marie.

MP Ste-Marie is very gracious and kind, as you all can see, in his comments about our committee. You may hear some political, ideological or policy differences among us, but we are a great team and we don't leave anybody behind. We have to make sure everybody is together.

This work is very important. It's very important for Canadians, and it's very important to help inform our government on the budget that's upcoming. Of course, you're very important. The most important are the witnesses.

Now MP Julian will have his opportunity to question the witnesses in his time.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

I'm Peter Julian, the member of Parliament for New Westminster—Burnaby. I'm very happy to see you here today, advocating on behalf of British Columbians and bringing that British Columbia perspective to the work of the finance committee.

I have tons of questions. I'll start with Ms. Stachova.

Thank you very much for your work with MOSAIC, which does such incredibly valuable work throughout the Lower Mainland. I've seen first-hand, of course, in New Westminster and Burnaby the work that you and your colleagues do.

You spoke about the housing strategy. In my riding, we have Hillside Gardens. Normally, it is a place where new Canadians go to try to find shelter that is affordable, but we have, in so many cases, six, eight or 10 adults sharing a one-bedroom apartment.

How important is it to address this crisis that we're seeing in housing among new Canadians—among all Canadians—not only in the Lower Mainland but right across the country?

[Olga Stachova]

I think that's the most important thing that we have to do. As you said, it's not just new Canadians. It's not just newcomers. Everyone struggles with housing.

Our organization serves newcomers. That's why I'm bringing the newcomer perspective. Given that, in housing, there's a shortage of housing and huge competition for affordable housing, so newcomers just don't have a chance. If you don't have the credit history and you don't have the references, how can you even get a rental? You can't.

We hear the stories, as you mentioned. We just met with Covenant House last week, and 50% of occupants in the shelters are newcomers these days. We hear of newcomers who can't find housing, so they stay with friends. It's a few nights with one friend and a few nights with another friend. There are mosques and faith-based groups that create temporary housing to house people, but people are underhoused.

Again, when looking at the newcomer perspective.... This is a country that really depends on immigration, and we want to be able to attract people. We can't take it for granted that we will remain the destination of choice. If people come and they are not able to find affordable housing and are not able to make a living and find meaningful and skills-commensurate jobs, they will stop coming.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you for that.

I'm going to move on to Mr. Vanagas.

I was surprised. Did I understand you correctly, that TransLink now operates the fourth-busiest transit system in Canada and the U.S.?

[Steve Vanagas]

In terms of the number of riders, yes, that's right.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

That's unbelievable. That shows the success and the importance of the system in the Lower Mainland. We have a restricted territory. We are working.... Of course, TransLink and Metro Vancouver and all the municipalities are working to ensure that the housing that is built is built around transit lines. This is something that is vitally important.

You also mentioned something that I found profoundly disappointing and frustrating: that a third of the buses are overcrowded on some bus lines now. I'm assuming that means that we're leaving people behind, and that the buses simply are not able to take all the people who need to get on the buses.

What is the impact of that, when you have a transit system that, because of a lack of federal funding, is so overloaded that it can't deliver people from point A to point B? What is the impact on businesses? What is the impact on people's quality of life?

[Steve Vanagas]

Yes, as you can imagine, it would have quite a bit of impact. It would have an economic impact, for sure, as people have a harder time getting to their jobs, getting to school and getting to their appointments. It has an impact on the roads. People will switch to cars, and we know that we want to get people out of cars. That has a major economic impact and a major lifestyle impact on individuals and families as well. It takes them longer to get back to their families from work.

I've heard stories. When we are meeting with communities, we hear stories about people who wait until after rush hour to get back to their families after working all day in a local health care facility or going to school. It can be tough. That commute can be tough.

We want to connect people with their housing. We talk about housing quite a bit, and we think it's absolutely essential that you build a transit infrastructure to support that new housing. I think that everybody is committed to building more housing around transit infrastructure, so we can't leave the transit infrastructure behind. We need to make sure that we're getting those buses in place that can move all of those people. Otherwise, as you said, it has a pretty significant impact on individuals.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much for that.

Mr. Boudreau—for YVR—I'm actually surprised about the two recommendations. Clean aviation fuel doesn't surprise me. In terms of infrastructure funding, the renovations are not complete on YVR's B terminal because we still have some of the old infrastructure in place. Is infrastructure funding not part of the YVR ask to the finance committee that we'll report to the federal government?

[Trevor Boudreau]

Thank you, Mr. Julian. I think I could probably present about 10 or 15 asks to this committee, so I did try to scale it down to two.

When it comes to infrastructure, yes, Canadian airports.... A significant amount of our annual budget, our capital expenditure, is basically just there to keep us in a state of good repair, so we do know that there is a lot of investment that is needed in Canada's airports. The Canadian Airports Council has put forward a recommendation, and we support that.

With regard to YVR's approach, yes, we do have some infrastructure in the terminal that needs to be invested in. We have, as committee members will no doubt have seen, some construction that was under way at the beginning of the pandemic that we had to cease. There was a parkade, a new geothermal system and a central utilities building. We're looking at the business cases to complete those now. We believe that we can.

I think the core issue—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Is federal funding part of that?

[Trevor Boudreau]

No, it currently is not. Canadian airports are funded in three ways. There are the fees that we charge airlines—aeronautical fees—and there's non-aeronautical revenue, such as when folks spend money in the terminal, as well as our land assets. We own 50% of the designer outlet centre here at YVR, and it's the highest-performing outlet in all of North America, so that does generate some revenue. Then, of course, there is the AIF, the airport improvement fund, and that can only go to capital expenditures.

No, government funding does not have a significant impact.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, MP Julian.

Members, we're going to go through one more round. We did start past our scheduled time, as you all know. In this round, we're starting with MP Morantz for five minutes.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Boudreau, I want to ask you to start from square one with regard to sustainable aviation fuel, just to give people who might be reading the transcript of this meeting later who aren't familiar with that an idea of what it is you're talking about. What is it?

[Trevor Boudreau]

Sustainable aviation fuel is a drop-in fuel, which means it can be commingled with traditional fossil jet fuel, which is used in aircraft today. It's produced from renewable sources, and it reduces the GHG impact by about 80% on a per-mile basis.

There are various feedstocks that can be used. Primarily the feedstock that is used right now is called HEFA, or waste, fats and oils. It means everything from cooking oils to animal renderings, and there is limited production capacity in North America.

California, as a jurisdiction, made investments—the investments we are asking the Canadian government to make. They made those investments almost a decade ago and now they are a sustainable aviation fuel powerhouse. They produce the vast majority of the sustainable aviation fuel that is created right now around the world, and they consume almost all of the SAF they create locally. They are also importing SAF because of the generous incentives that are in place.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Do we have that in Canada?

[Trevor Boudreau]

We do not currently, no. There is technology and there are producers here locally in the Lower Mainland—Parkland Corporation refinery. There is a refinery up north, but the name escapes me at the moment. It is capable of producing small quantities, but what we're looking at is scaling up to large quantities of SAF production. We believe that this jurisdiction, British Columbia and the Lower Mainland, will be Canada's first production hub.