I will try to be as relevant to the amendment as my colleague just was to the motion—maybe more so. We'll see.
Look, I think it's important to state that I'm quite satisfied with the motion as it stood. I don't see any particular need to amend the motion, particularly not in the way that my colleague has proposed.
If I understand correctly, the reason why we're not on the housing study is that my Conservative colleagues take exception to the phrase “Premier Danielle Smith's dangerous plan”. I think it is pretty clear, if you look at some of the public domain polling, that a majority of Albertans are very seriously concerned about the prospect of leaving the Canada pension plan.
I think it's pretty clear, if you've read the coverage of this particular proposal by various media outlets, that it's something the Alberta government dreamt up in order to try to create some political leverage. I think it is dangerous to stake the pension futures of Canadian workers across the country on a political gambit to try to wrest things out of Ottawa. I think a government that is trying to act in the interests of its people doesn't politicize their pensions in that way.
The Canada pension plan has an excellent track record of, frankly, great returns. I think there are lots of people who would like to see, in their personal investment portfolio, returns of the kind that the CPP has seen. I think they've averaged about 10% over the last 10 years—of course, it's been a very tumultuous 10 years. Until interest rates went up it was pretty hard to get a 10% return on much of anything. There are always debates about what the Canada pension plan invests in, and how much it invests, and all the rest. I don't think there should be any debate about the efficacy of the CPPIB in securing a good return for Canadian pensioners.
I don't take exception to this. What I would say to my colleagues is that not long ago we passed a motion objecting to the HSBC-RBC merger. We did that because even though there were some folks.... If memory serves, I don't think the Liberals voted on that particular proposal. They didn't oppose it, but they didn't support it either. I think what's notable about that, notwithstanding the merits of abstention—I won't speak to that at the moment—was that we got to make a decision as a committee. I get that there are some folks around the table who want to defend Danielle Smith more than they want to study housing. That's not the point of view of everyone around the committee table. Maybe we'll find out that it is—I don't know. The point is that we'll know when we have the vote.
I don't think that suspending the work that this committee was managing to do in a constructive way on the housing file.... Something that we haven't seen enough of is constructive, productive work. This is in order to provide political cover for Danielle Smith, who, as I say, is doing something that is dangerous, risky and in my opinion not motivated by the right reasons. I think that is a mistake.
I'd be very glad to see us come to a vote. As I say, when it came to the RBC-HSBC merger, it wasn't that we didn't have a consensus...and that's not the way that we operate in Parliament, in any event.... You often hear Conservatives talk about the wonder of majority democracy and 50% plus one, and all of that, but 50% plus one only matters if you get to have a vote. Now, when they don't like it they say you need to have a consensus. When they do like it, then 50% plus one will do. Which is it? Is it 50% plus one, or is consensus-based decision-making?
If the Conservatives want consensus-based decision-making to be the way we do things on Parliament Hill, surely they'll have to carry a very different attitude and posture into committee meetings and the House of Commons than they have been, for as long as I can remember. I would say their posture is not one that promotes consensus decision-making. I've been part of organizations that operate on a consensus-based model, and the discussions around the table look very different.
If the commitment is to 50% plus one, then so be it. I'm not advocating for a change to consensus-based decision-making. I'm just saying if you have and you support a 50% plus one model, the only way that is functional is if you allow for votes to happen, and what the Conservatives are doing is essentially imposing a consensus-based decision-making model on the committee by refusing to allow for a vote when they don't agree with the motion.
I am to take from this that the only way we're going to have votes around here is if the Conservatives already like what the motion has to say.
As a New Democrat, I know very well what it means to lose votes and, nevertheless, be committed to an institution in which I don't always win based on the rules—but I don't take my ball and go home. I don't refuse having business happen simply because I don't like all of the business that's being conducted. I focus on the next battle.
People are free to take whatever position they want around the table. What I don't like is a position that says, unless we like what's in the motion, there won't be any votes. And I will say, for as much as I have disagreements with my Liberal colleagues from time to time, what I'm reading in the tea leaves is that they weren't thrilled about the RBC-HSBC merger motion at committee. I don't know; I'll leave that for them to say. They didn't vote against it. They didn't vote for it, but they did allow the vote to happen, and I don't see that we need to sit here much longer, provided that we can allow a vote to happen.
Then we will know the will of the committee, as we came to know the will of the committee on the RBC-HSBC merger, and we will move on from there. The reason we're not moving on is that the Conservatives are doing Danielle Smith's dirty work at this table because they don't like the idea that a committee of the House of Commons would criticize her.
I don't think that's the threshold here. We're allowed to have votes on these kinds of things, or at least we should be.
If need be, I can say more about the amendment but certainly on the main motion, I'm happy to proceed to a vote. I think it is fine as it stands. I don't think the amendment improves the motion in any way, nor do I think it helps us get closer to a consensus. If that's indeed what the Conservatives are looking for, I don't see this amendment as having contributed to that at all.
I do know that when the motion was first moved there was some talk about trying to find an amendment and come closer to a consensus. I've been willing to listen with an open ear on that. This amendment has not been part of those conversations, and it is clearly designed not to bring the committee closer to any kind of consensus.
There is a little bit of disappointment on that front, to be sure, that protecting Danielle Smith's political hide is going to be more important to federal Conservatives around this table than approaching consensus, but I'll leave it now to my Conservative colleagues to carry on talking.
Thank you.