Finance Committee on Nov. 20th, 2023

[Brett Capwell, Committee Researcher]

The body of the report is mostly prepared at this point. I think there are a few small aspects that are still being drafted or are in translation. I would say that the next.... If the committee were to meet on the report, the most logical place to start would be to begin going through the recommendations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Good.

Thank you, PS Bendayan.

Now we'll go to MP Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Just with respect to those pre-budget consultation issues, I will say that I'd be happy for the committee to be able to move on to that in the very short term. I think we just.... With the minister appearing on Thursday, that gives us two more meetings after today in our regular schedule. It would be wonderful to be able to spend those meetings on the pre-budget consultation report.

I think that the best way to do that is to get to a vote on the amendment and the motion that we have before us. I'm going to spend a little time talking, but with the caveat that I'm very happy to stop talking at any point if we have unanimous consent to give each party another two or three minutes to speak and then proceed to a vote on the amendment and a vote on the motion.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

We don't need to speak anymore.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

We're ready to go to a vote.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

If there's agreement to go to a vote on the amendment and then on the main motion, I'm prepared to do that, Mr. Chair. Otherwise, I'm sure I can dream up a few things to say.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm sorry. I don't want to crosstalk, but we are prepared to go to a vote on the amendment. I can see a path to finishing today.

That's what I can give you right now.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I won't stand in the way of that, Mr. Chair. We're prepared to have votes, as I say, on the amendment and the main motion today.

Let's get going.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

What I'm hearing is that members are asking for a vote on the amendment and then on the main motion.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

We want the amendment. I want to be clear. We are agreeable to vote immediately on the amendment.

I'll put all of our cards on the table. We have another amendment that we want to put forward, but we don't want a lengthy debate on that. Then we'll proceed to the vote on the main motion.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We are going to a vote on the amendment.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Go ahead, MP Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I think we can go to Mr. Lawrence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay.

MP Lawrence, the floor is yours.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'd like to move the following amendment to the main motion. We're replacing paragraph three with “Stands with Canadians who wish to protect the CPP and encourages Albertans to remain in the CPP so that it can be secured for all Albertans and Canadians”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay.

MP Blaikie, you have the floor.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The interpreters are signalling that they do not have the text of the motion, so they would like to have the French version of the motion.

Thank you.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

We'll send it right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Let's give them some time.

Would you like some time, MP Ste-Marie, to get it in French?

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I would like the clerk or the Conservative members to send us the motion in French.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We'll suspend then.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay, members, you should have received the French translation.

I'm looking at MP Ste-Marie, and he's giving me a thumbs-up. It is good.

On this amendment, is there discussion or debate?

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Yes, I'm happy to offer a couple thoughts.

First of all, I want to say thank you for what I think is a reasonable amendment.

Although it's not one I intend to support, I do think it's constructive, and I think it's the right kind of dialogue to have around this table. I don't think it's a terrible amendment, but I think part of what's been at stake in the debate so far is the appropriateness of having some criticism for other levels of government. Of course, we see many times members of the House offer criticisms of various levels of government.

For me, I'm very much of the view that this initiative coming from the Smith government is political from the get-go. It's a political criticism that's meant to create a certain kind of political discontent, and I think it's unfortunate. There are many ways that provinces can do that, and it's fair game to criticize the federal government. However, when it comes to the CPP, the wide level of consensus that's there about the CPP and the good performance of the CPP over a long time, I do think it's not something that should be brought into some of the typical debates between provinces and the federal government.

I don't really think, in this case, that the federal government is the one that's going to suffer for this debate, and I talked at the last meeting a little bit about how even the spectre of these changes has the potential to do damage and to do damage now. Canadian workers and people who depend on the CPP are most likely to get hurt. It's not Justin Trudeau and the Liberals. It's not the federal government generally. I think being able to name that in the motion is an important part of what we're doing here, and it's why I don't intend to support the amendment.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Blaikie.

Is there anyone else? No, okay.

We'll go to the vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We're going to the main motion.

Who would like to speak to the main motion?

Go ahead, MP Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

I'll be true to my word. It won't be a lengthy debate. I just want to get a couple of comments on the record.

As you can see from these amendments we've brought forward, particularly the second, Conservatives stand in full support of the CPP, and our encouragement is that Alberta stay within the CPP regime.

That being said, unfortunately, the divisive rhetoric of this motion is really just meant for purely political reasons, and that's what's come across. It's clear from this that the goal is not to show solidarity or support for the Canada pension plan but instead to pick fights, unfortunately, with our provincial counterparts, which I don't think is productive. Quite frankly, I don't think calling names is a way to encourage Albertans to stay in the CPP.

Obviously, Conservatives stand alone. That's not unusual, and we will continue to stand for what's right.

With that, we Conservatives would like to call for a vote on this.