Yes.
Evidence of meeting #127 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mortgage.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #127 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mortgage.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, MP Blaikie. That's the time for the first round.
We got off to a bumpy start at the beginning, but we want to thank the minister, who accommodated us because we started our meeting late today.
We have about 22 minutes. We don't have time for a full round. We have divided the time equally among parties as in the past. I'm looking to members. Are members good with that?
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
That's what we've always done at this committee.
Go ahead, MP Hallan.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
Chair, I think we should revert to the rule about the number of seats in the House and split time like that. That would mean five minutes for us, five minutes for the Liberals, 2.5 minutes for the other two parties and then 2.5 minutes for the Conservatives and Liberals.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you for that, MP Hallan. We would do that if we had the time. We would have had it if we hadn't had some interruptions at the beginning of this meeting.
Right now, I'm going to suspend for a while to confer with the clerk about this.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Members, we're back.
I've conferred with the clerk. We are going to proceed the same way we have done in the past, since we've started this meeting. We will be dividing the time equally among the parties, so each party will have approximately five minutes for questions.
We will start with the Conservatives and MP Lawrence.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
That's perfect.
Thank you, Minister Fraser, for appearing. We've known each other since we both attended the Conservative convention in Halifax, so it's been a while.
I'm hoping we can leverage some of this, because we have a very serious issue in front of us. As we know, mortgages have doubled, rents have doubled and we have people living in tents from coast to coast to coast, including in your riding, Minister.
I want to start with the housing accelerator fund, which started over three years ago. About $4 billion has been invested. How many houses have been built?
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
The housing accelerator fund only started reaching agreements in September of last year. Though it was campaigned on in 2021 and budgeted in 2022, the fund led to agreements beginning in September of last year.
It's also important to understand that the housing accelerator fund doesn't go toward the cost of building houses; it goes towards incentivizing changes at municipal levels. That will speed up permitting processes and exclusionary zoning. It will increase density around post-secondary institutions, infrastructure, transit and so on.
It will lead to more homes, but the nuance in your question is important. It doesn't actually lead to the construction of specific homes.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
I understand, and thank you, Minister.
At the end of the day, what we need and what Canadians need is urgency. In fact, Mr. Dugan, who came to this committee, said he warned your government in 2018 that there was a housing supply issue, so we're in a crisis now.
How many houses has the housing accelerator fund built with $4 billion three years later?
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Again, the housing accelerator fund—and I don't mean to be difficult here—does a different thing than your question suggests. It is expected, with the deals we've signed so far, that it will lead to the addition of more than half a million homes over the next decade. However, that's not a result of money going towards construction.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
I understand, and I don't want to be disrespectful with crosstalk.
As of today, you can't point to one key in the door, one new bedroom or one new house built as a direct result of the housing accelerator fund. Is that right?
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I see what you're trying to get at. It's important to understand that when we're signing agreements to change rules, as in September, it takes more than a few months to build out the homes, many of which will be multiplexes or apartment buildings.
This is, in my view, the fund that has most outperformed very high expectations out of anything that I've seen.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
With respect, though, Minister, in terms of performance, we have zero keys in doors and your government was warned. Mr. Dugan told us in testimony that this was in September 2018.
We have zero keys in doors because of the housing accelerator fund. Isn't that true?
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I completely disagree with your characterization. For what it's worth, hundreds of thousands of homes have been built or renovated as a result of programs that have been in place since then.
With respect to the housing accelerator fund, it is proving its merit. There are deals with 36 cities that have already changed the ways they will allow homes to be built. We've witnessed in the past six months the largest upzoning in Canadian history in cities right across the country. Next week, we're going to start working with small towns and rural communities. This has been a very big success.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you, Minister, but that's cold comfort at best to Canadians who are continuing to live in tents.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Two million are going to food banks and a whole generation has given up on housing because of your government.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Will any bonuses be paid out? Have you signed off on any bonuses for 2023 for any government officials in charge of housing? Given the status that an entire generation has given up on home ownership, renovictions are up and rental costs and mortgages have doubled, I would say strongly that most Canadians don't believe they deserve a bonus.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I don't personally assign bonuses to public servants. Frankly, my time is far better spent on advancing measures that will get more homes built and help people in need. The compensation in public service is done independently of my ministerial office.
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Officials will receive bonuses for the housing hell that your government has started. That's fine.
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
My apologies for the crosstalk, Mr. Chair.
CMHC has said that the housing gap between now and 2030—the number that has been used—is three and a half million. CIBC came out two days ago and said the gap is five million homes. Would you care to comment on that, Minister?
