Evidence of meeting #127 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mortgage.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Central Nova Nova Scotia
Liberal
12:30 p.m.
An hon. member
About 30 seconds.
12:30 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
February 13th, 2024 / 12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I'll try to keep it tight, to just a few minutes.
Thank you for inviting me here today. I am pleased to discuss with you the challenges and opportunities associated with housing in Canada.
I'm really looking forward to the conversation that we have an opportunity to be part of today about how we're going to build more homes. We are living through a housing crisis in Canada, and if we're going to get out of it, we need to build more homes and build them by the millions.
When I look at the challenges that people are facing, this is impacting them in a very real and serious way. When I talk to students, I hear they have a challenging time finding places they can afford, and if they can find a place, it's often a lengthy commute from their class or it's an overcrowded situation. When I talk to young people who are thinking about opportunities to start their career, I hear they're worried about their opportunity to find a place to live in a city that may create that opportunity, or potentially to buy a place where they can raise a family at some point in time. I've talked to seniors who want to age in place, in the same community where their grandkids are being raised, which I don't think is too much to ask, but who find themselves without an option to downsize to a place they can actually afford. I think constantly about the impact on communities that miss out on the opportunity for people to contribute their dynamism to the economy and their talents, should they be able to find a place they can afford.
The place we are at today is the result of a confluence of different factors. Some of them have been decades in the making. Some of them have arrived more recently. I think about decisions taken by different governments of different political affiliations over the course of 30 years to not invest in affordable housing. More recently, I think about the pattern we saw when interest rates were extremely low during the pandemic. People bought up properties and are suddenly facing a higher interest rate environment. That has not just put pressure on the people who bought those homes, but has also crowded others out of the market.
Despite the enormity of the challenges we're facing, I do believe we can solve this challenge—we as a society. The federal government can't do it on its own, but we need to play a leadership role. The way I think we can do that is by putting measures in place that are going to help build more homes, that are going to support Canadians in need and that will make it easier to rent or buy a home.
When it comes to building more homes, we need to make the math work for builders. We have seen an increase in the cost of materials, labour, supplies and land and, of course, an increase in interest in recent years, which has caused a lot of projects that were marginal before to not move forward because the economic case has fallen apart.
Obviously, we have removed the GST from new apartments. We've put low-cost financing on the table through the apartment construction loan program. We've recapitalized the Canada mortgage bonds program to put more cheap money on the market.
However, it's not enough for us to just address the cost of building. We also have to address some of the systemic challenges around how communities allow homes to get built.
We need to squeeze more productivity when it comes to housing policy out of the infrastructure investments we are making. Obviously, we have been rolling out deals with communities—I believe 36 now—across the country, through the housing accelerator fund, to put federal money on the table, not necessarily to directly construct the homes, but to change the rules on how homes are built. That will have a positive impact in perpetuity around zoning practices and permitting processes in particular.
We also need to adopt an industrial strategy around homebuilding, with a focus on training opportunities for Canadian workers and immigration streams that bring talent to Canada where it doesn't exist today. We also need to incentivize innovation in homebuilding, particularly to get more homes built in factories across the country.
When we put together this plan that will help build more homes, we can't ignore the fact that there are vulnerable people who need particular kinds of homes to be built. This is where investments in affordable housing come into play. The affordable housing fund, which was recently recapitalized with an additional billion dollars in the fall economic statement, is designed to help with the capital cost of putting up homes for people who have intense needs.
In addition, we've rolled out programs to support communities that are dealing with homelessness challenges. Despite the fact that we have made serious investments, I'll be the first to acknowledge that we have a long way to go, given the extraordinary nature of the challenges that communities are dealing with today.
We have other programs that have supported people directly—for example, the Canada housing benefit—but we can't ignore the fact that there are people from different demographic communities are disproportionately impacted. I think in particular of indigenous people across Canada, who will benefit from upcoming federal investments in housing and who have for too long been ignored and have not benefited from the same level of investment that other Canadians have benefited from when it comes to housing policy.
Finally, we need to make sure that young Canadians in particular have a place they can rent or buy. We've created the first home savings account, which, I'm pleased to share, has now seen more than half a million young Canadians sign up for a tax-free savings account towards a down payment on their first home.
There's a suite of other measures we are looking at or have implemented to help reduce pressure on rental markets.
I'm pretty sure I am exhausting my five minutes, Mr. Chair. I'll cut my opening remarks off there and gladly take what questions committee members may have.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thanks, Minister. You're right on time.
We are going to jump into our questions. In our first round, each party has six minutes to ask questions.
We are starting with MP Hallan.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Two years ago, Minister, you were the Minister of Immigration. At that time, your department gave your government a very dire warning that housing starts had not kept up with the pace of rapid population growth. In other words, it would make housing more expensive because it would fuel demand.
There was a housing crisis then. It's even worse now. Who made the decision to ignore that warning? Was it you, or were you told to ignore that warning?
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
No one ignored any warnings.
The part of the story that you may not be familiar with are the warnings about what would happen to our health care system, after I talked to folks in the sector. There was the warning from home builders that we would not be able to build homes if they didn't have access to talent, and the warning from the business community about the massive closures that would take place if we didn't work to—
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
Minister, it was absolutely ignored by somebody, because after that warning, in the last eight years, rents have doubled in this country under your government. Canadians, students and even newcomers now—as you addressed in your opening statements—are living in cars. They're living under bridges. The cost of shelter has skyrocketed in this country.
You had a report in front of you when you were immigration minister in which you and your government were warned that if you continued down the path you were on, it would fuel a worse housing crisis, which we see today. That is a consequence of you ignoring that.
Once again, who ignored that warning? Was it you, or were you told to ignore it and continue down that path?
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
One thing that's really important for Canada's social and economic well-being is that we don't seek to attribute the very real challenges we're having with housing exclusively to the issue of immigration. I think it's important that we understand the rate of interest has changed, and the cost of materials, supplies and labour—
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Mr. Chair, when I'm asked a question, do I have the same amount of time to offer a response?
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
You have time to give a response.
What I am asking from members is no crosstalk while we're here, please. Allow the minister to answer a question.
Go ahead, MP Hallan.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
Respectfully, the minister continues to deflect away from ignoring this dire warning that his own department gave him.
Minister, you and your government had a report in front of you given to you by your own department. You guys literally threw it out and ignored the warning that caused the housing crisis we're in today and made it even worse.
Tell us, what was the immediate action you took when that department told you that your current plans were going to lead to a worse housing crisis?
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
This is the first time I've heard the Conservative Party openly suggest that the cause of the housing crisis is immigration.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
Excuse me. That's false. That's absolutely false.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
On a point of order, Chair, Mr. Hallan continues to interrupt. He's done this with prior ministers. He's doing it with this minister.
I would just ask you, Chair—and I'd ask Mr. Hallan—to please allow the minister to answer the question.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
MP Hallan, please stop with the crosstalk. Allow for answers to be given.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, that is the third question that I have not heard the minister respond to. Time should be given to him right now to respond to those three questions, instead of allowing the melodramatic questioning from the other side—
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
Conservative