Finance Committee on Jan. 21st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I may, on that comment about the motion, just to confirm—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Yes.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

—the motion is for documentation “if it exists...for the following areas be provided to the committee within 2 weeks to support the committee”['s] work.

I absolutely agree that we would not like to distract anybody. This is a lift-and-shift of information that, if it is available, I would like to be available to all members of the committee. I agree that both institutions are doing very hard work, but if this information exists, I think it would be very helpful for us to see this information. We are doing important work on behalf of Canadians as well at this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Chambers.

I have Mr. Poilievre next, and then Mr. Blaikie and Mr. Baker.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

This is a very reasonable request. I would simply point out that what Mr. Chambers is asking for is information that we should all be getting. The Liberal members say that CMHC works for Canadians—of course it does—and Canadians entrust us to oversee that work. CMHC is responsible to Parliament; we are Parliament. Therefore, CMHC is responsible to us.

This is especially important, because when Mr. Trudeau took office, house prices were at $435,000, according to the Canadian Real Estate Association, and now they're at $811,000. That's 85% housing inflation, with 25% in the last year alone. This is an increase that the chief economist for CREA said is the “biggest gain of all time”. That's after $400 billion of newly created cash was pumped into the financial and mortgage system and inflated these prices.

The risk is that this is a homegrown problem. Bloomberg says we have the second most inflated housing market in the world. Vancouver and Toronto are the second and fifth most unaffordable housing markets on planet earth, according to Demographia.

The committee should remember that banking rules, mortgage insurance, monetary policy and money laundering are all federal issues, so this is a federal matter. What Mr. Chambers is asking for, and what I'm asking for in my similar motion, is the appropriate information so that we can make judgments on those federal matters. That's all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Poilievre.

I have Mr. Blaikie and then Mr. Baker.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Just on the matter of the motion, one of the great things about its being raised right now is that we have the witnesses here. I would submit that if the witnesses don't object to providing these documents, which, as Mr. Chambers' motion highlights, would already have to exist in order to be covered by his motion.... I don't think he's asking for confidential documents; they're documents that the committee wouldn't be allowed to see. If it's not controversial with the witnesses, I don't see why we can't move on with a commitment from them that they're going to provide that information. If we need to pass the motion because we can't get that commitment, that's something we could deal with on another day.

I wonder, Mr. Chair, if you might just canvass the witnesses to see if this is information they're willing to commit to provide to the committee. If so, we might be able to dispense with this matter relatively quickly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you for that, Mr. Blaikie.

I want to check with the clerk whether he has received what was asked for, and if he received it in both official languages.

[The Clerk]

I received the motion from Mr. Chambers, but it's only in English. I don't have it in French, so I can't circulate it. I have not received any information from CMHC or OSFI today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

To the witnesses, I don't know if you've captured everything that was asked for by way of documentation.

[Peter Routledge]

I'd like to look at what's requested. I don't remember it verbatim. To the extent that it's within our authorities under our act to provide the information, of course we'll do so with great haste.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Does that answer your question, Mr. Blaikie?

Yes. Okay. Thank you.

I have Mr. Baker up next.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I'm not weighing in on the validity or the merit of Mr. Chambers' motion yet. I'm saying two things. One is that I did note that some of the things were beyond the scope of the discussion we had today.

I'd like the motion to be put forward in both official languages. The committee works based on that rule and we should always follow it.

Because I haven't seen the list of documents and information that Mr. Chambers is requesting, I can't form an opinion on the matter.

As I mentioned, if the witnesses are prepared to produce the information we discussed today, that's fine with me. However, I'm not prepared to rule on a motion that has not been introduced in both official languages.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Baker.

I am looking at the witnesses for their commitment to provide information, as Mr. Blaikie also mentioned, which you may be able to bring to this committee.

I am seeing all heads nodding, and in the right direction, so if we can conclude with that, I'm looking to the members—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I did move a motion as well. I noticed Mr. Routledge nod when I asked for some of the statistical information, and I think Ms. Bowers has given her verbal commitment as well. If they could just confirm that now then I won't need to actually put a motion forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Poilievre.

[Peter Routledge]

Mr. Chair, that's confirmed. We're looking into it right now as I speak.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay.

[Romy Bowers]

Mr. Chair, Mr. Poilievre asked for three things: reconfirmation of the guarantees in force number; reconfirmation of the insurance in force number for CMHC; and, information regarding the capital we have set aside for potential losses resulting from our mortgage activity.

Those were the three elements.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

No, I'm sorry. Just to reconfirm my request, it is the combined total of the insurance in force and the guarantees. I already have the separate numbers. What I need is the combined total because, as you point out, they cannot simply be added up due to the fact that there is overlap between them, so the combined total insurance in force and the guarantees in force is what I'm looking for.

[Romy Bowers]

Understood. Thank you.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

It is understood by the witnesses that we have a commitment. We are good.

I want to thank the witnesses again.

We have gone well over the time. It has been a marathon session. Thank you very much, everybody. Have a great day.

The meeting is adjourned.