Evidence of meeting #132 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was competition.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
I'll speak very quickly, because I'm next up to speak, so I want to ask the witnesses a few questions.
Much of what Mr. Hallan is saying is deliberate disinformation—that is, deliberately not saying truthful things—and I'm sure he's going to be posting it on his website in the future.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
I would just check the rules related to parliamentary language and accusations.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
March 19th, 2024 / 12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
I'm sorry. I didn't know if you had more to say, Mr. Chambers.
Look, I just want to put on the record that last week I happened to have Minister Wilkinson in my riding, and this question actually came up from a Davenport resident on whether or not the carbon tax is a really bad thing given the fact that life is really tough for Canadians right now. His deliberate answer, I think, is important to put on the record. Putting a price on pollution, a.k.a. the carbon tax, is the most economically efficient way to reduce carbon emissions. If you ask 100 economists, 99 and one-half of them will tell you that is true. The way we have structured this price on pollution makes it affordable for eight out of 10 Canadian families, where they will get more money back than what they paid. It works proportionately to their income, so those who live on the most modest means get more money back than they actually paid.
I think it's really important for us to put that on the record, Mr. Chair.
Maybe at this point, because I want to go back to our witnesses, I'd like to call for a vote.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Mr. Chair, I just want to express my concern that Ms. Dzerowicz is deliberately providing disinformation to this committee.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
She's saying that Canadians get back from the carbon tax more than they paid, but we know that that simply is not true. This is deliberate disinformation, Mr. Chair, from Liberal MPs at this committee. It's deliberate disinformation. It's very, very concerning. The Parliamentary Budget Officer put out a report that makes it very clear that Canadians pay more in the carbon tax than they get back. I would ask you to enforce the rules around truthful testimony at this committee.
There's one other thing, only because Mr. Blaikie raised this issue of how much the carbon tax contributes to inflation. Now, the bank governor was here saying it contributes 0.6% to inflation, but that will go up by 0.15% on April 1, because of the carbon tax increase, so the effect on inflation will be 0.6% plus 0.15%.
Now, the inflation rate is 3.9%, and just recently the Governor of the Bank of Canada said he was holding interest rates fast. I would love to ask him next time he's here—and I will ask him—if the carbon tax didn't exist, the inflation rate would have been, then, by his own numbers 3.3%. I think at 3.3% he would have reduced rates during the last economic policy report.
I'll leave that thought with the committee, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
I'll be quick. Thank you.
I just want to go over carbon tax and math. I and Governor Macklem have done this a number of times, yet, unfortunately, it continues to get demagoged, and misinformation is out there. I'm just going to do the numbers, and all my numbers will be cited to the Bank of Canada and the governor, Tiff Macklem. You can look it all up.
Currently the headline rate of inflation in Canada is 2.9%. The carbon tax, according to the Governor of the Bank of Canada, at its current rate, is 0.6% of that. The increase coming on April 1, which is a 23% increase in the rate of the carbon tax, will add another 0.15%. If you do the math and you calculate it—you divide the numerator by the denominator—that's 26%, according to the Governor of the Bank of Canada. This is a non-partisan office. According to the Governor of the Bank of Canada, we could reduce inflation by 26% tomorrow by eliminating the carbon tax.
With respect to Mr. Blaikie's comment on who's benefiting from it, well, I can tell him that the most vulnerable in Norththumberland—Peterborough South are barely getting by. There's been a doubling in the usage of food banks by children. Do you know who gets hurt by the carbon tax? If you can't make it to the end of the month to feed your family, that's a huge issue, Mr. Blaikie—it's huge. And the carbon tax is taking tons of money.
Conservatives will always be open to reducing taxes.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
It's simple math. We can reduce inflation by 26% tomorrow by eliminating the carbon tax.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, MP Lawrence.
I don't think I have anybody else on the list, so I'll go to the clerk to poll the members please.
(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)
MP Hallan, you have about a minute left.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you very much.
I just want to follow up with Mr. Hallan. I understand Mr. Hallan's questions, and I understand that there are frameworks, legislation and actions that have to be put in place, but presumably those actions are put in place to achieve results.
Certainly, in the private sector, if an investment is made, if a change is made, there's nearly always a calculation as to the return and what will be achieved. With respect to the changes in the fall economic statement and its implementation act, Bill C-59, what can consumers expect in terms of a reduction in prices?
12:35 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategy and Innovation Policy Sector, Department of Industry
Thank you again, Mr. Chair, for the question.
Because the Competition Act is premised as an enforcement action act—it's premised on the notion that the Competition Bureau will be awarded the tools to be able to combat actions within the marketplace that significantly lessen competition and choice for consumers—it's nearly impossible to predict what actions the bureau will then take action against within the marketplace, nor or the behaviour changes. However, the premise of the proposals within the act is such that, by tightening the rules on anti-competitive activities and providing greater enforcement powers to the enforcer, this will in fact increase competition, increase choice and thereby lower prices for Canadians, but there's no number that I—
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
That's your time, MP Lawrence.
Now it's over to MP Dzerowicz, please.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, I want to thank everyone here today. I think often it takes a room where you see a lot of people who've done a lot of hard work to know that there are a heck of a lot of people working in our government doing really important work, so I just want to say a huge thanks to all of you. I know all of you won't get a chance to speak today, but I thank you for being here. Thanks for your hard work.
Since our competition team is here, I might as well ask a question of them. I know that we've been working really hard as a government to try to improve our competition within Canada, and I know there have been elements in Bill C-56 in addition to Bill C-59 around modernizing our competition regime.
If you could, maybe talk to how the measures in Bill C-59 build on those measures that we've introduced in Bill C-56, which was, I believe, our budget. Thank you.
