Finance Committee on April 11th, 2024

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to start with the Otonabee-South Monaghan Food Cupboard.

First of all, thank you very much, Joan, for appearing.

To share with the committee a bit of the backstory, Joan came to our office and presented her case about people dealing with deep poverty and food banks. She provided a brief that the best lobbyists in this town couldn't have compared theirs with. It was incredibly professional. I think a representative of democracy should be just that—a representative of the folks—and it's my great pride to have Joan, from our great riding of Northumberland—Peterborough South, here today at the finance committee.

First of all, Joan, I believe everything you do is on a volunteer basis. Is that correct?

[Joan DiFruscia]

Yes, it is. We have 100% volunteer staff and committee. There are no paid people.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

That's amazing.

I just came from the heritage committee. The CEO of Bell is getting $13 million, and Catherine Tait from the CBC is getting millions of dollars, and we have great volunteers like you who are out there.

Joan, one of the things you told me when you came in was really quite startling. It was the dramatic increase in usage of the food bank, the Otonabee-South Monaghan Food Cupboard, that you had noticed from November to February. I know you covered this a bit in your intro, but could you go over that again for us?

[Joan DiFruscia]

Okay. Between last year's November and this year's February, the number of children that we started with was 19 and it ended up at 37. It may seem like small numbers to big cities, but for our rural municipality it was substantial. We had the greatest number of families that we've ever experienced, 40, back in February, and before COVID we had 15 or 16. It has been a big change.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Yes, and specifically—I know you mentioned it in your intro as well and I have the numbers in front of me—the number of children almost doubled in that time as well. Is that correct, Joan?

[Joan DiFruscia]

Yes, it is.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thanks again, Joan, for participating in the finance committee. I think it's great to hear from people like you, who really are the fabric of our community.

One of the things that I know we talked about briefly is how we fix this. You and I might have some different ideas on that, but nonetheless, I like to give even people who disagree with me on some things a voice. Maybe you could talk a bit about some of the ideas you have.

[Joan DiFruscia]

One idea is the guaranteed livable income. That would basically be an income floor for people in Canada. Another idea is for governments to work together on initiatives like the Canada disability benefit. As it's being rolled out, if Ontario decides to claw back its Ontario disability support program, saying it's all covered at the federal level, people on disability are not going to be any further ahead. That could also be relevant to other programs that are already in existence. There may even be different federal programs that might be clawed back as another one is rolled out.

Overall, we need to be working on helping people have better lives, and not having them stress about making rent or whatever issues they have. We need to realize there's also a cost of not doing anything.

Other supports could include affordable housing. Mixing people of different income levels is a good thing. As I said, in our case, keeping them in the community where they've spent so many years of their lives is a very positive thing in helping people have lives that are more pleasant to live, instead of saying “Who is my neighbour anyway?” or having to move 50 or 100 kilometres somewhere else so that they can live. Having them in our community is truly amazing.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you very much, Joan.

I'll just conclude. We have certainly talked a lot about productivity, and the fact that Canada, for six quarters in a row—I'm being told it's almost seven now—has had a shrinking GDP per capita. We've had declining productivity and declining investment. These last eight years have been really tough for people. The reason why I talk about productivity is not that I want to talk about numbers or fancy equations; it's because of the families that Joan serves.

We need to do better. We need a change. We need common-sense solutions that give Joan's families the opportunities they deserve, so people earning $30,000 don't come across marginal effective tax rates that take 50% of their income. It's immoral, it's wrong, and we need to do better.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We'll now go to MP Baker, please.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

Thanks to all of the witnesses for being here today and for accommodating the changed timing for those of you who had to come in early on short notice. We appreciate that. Obviously, the result of that is that we still have the same amount of time for questioning, but there are more folks of whom we could ask questions. That makes it a bit more challenging. I won't get to all of you, but I thank you for your testimony, your time, and your advocacy on the various causes.

I will direct most of my questions to Mr. Kantzavelos.

I want to talk about my community of Etobicoke Centre. In my community, as in communities across this country, we have many professional dry cleaners. I've lived throughout the riding in different places over the years. I've frequented Gibson's Cleaners, Montgomery Alterations and Dry Cleaning, La Rose Cleaners, and others. One of the things I know from interacting with those folks, especially during the pandemic, as was the case with many businesses in different sectors of the economy, was how much their businesses were affected during the pandemic. You can imagine many people weren't having their clothes professionally cleaned during the pandemic.

Could you talk briefly about how the supports provided by the federal government helped those businesses during that time?

[Konstadin Kantzavelos]

That's a very good question, Mr. Baker.

Believe or not, at the height of the pandemic, the fabricare industry was deemed an essential service, which was, for lack of a better word, almost like a kiss of death. We were allowed to stay open, but it was very difficult to receive many of those programs that were initially brought out. Eventually, when everything got up to speed, months and months later, many businesses started trickling down and getting some of those support systems in place. Unfortunately, we did not, because of that essential service designation that was given to us.

The cleaners you mentioned, some of the biggest cleaners in the GTA, like many members of the CFA, went from 100 to literally zero overnight. There was no business coming in for many months. Rents and utilities had to be paid. It was very difficult.

I hope that answers your question.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I appreciate that. I appreciate your being direct with us about that.

I know every business is a little bit different. I'm asking specifically about you and your experience. I understand you have a very green and eco-friendly business. Is that correct?

[Konstadin Kantzavelos]

That is correct, sir. We originally operated a traditional dry cleaning facility. Our main ingredient was perchloroethylene. A lot of people know it as “perc”. Approximately 15 years ago, my brother Petro, who is also my partner, and I decided to do something—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'm just going to interject really quickly. I just stopped the time.

The bells are ringing. Do we have unanimous consent to keep going?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay. Please continue.

[Konstadin Kantzavelos]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We decided to take this initiative and introduce a whole new technology in Canada called wet cleaning. Believe it or not, everything that we produce in our facility is with soap and water. Obviously, there's a lot more involved in that. We do everything completely green. All detergents and ingredients we use are free of phosphates and are biodegradable.

We were one of the first plants to take that initiative. We're very proud of that. Since then, we've become advocates to show other places how to make the shift.

Having said that, every dry cleaner who is a member of the CFA adheres to every environmental regulation that is available. There are strict regulations. Every cleaner that we are affiliated with abides by every single law and does everything above board and to code.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Chair, how much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have a minute and a half.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You've invested a lot in productivity improvements as well in your business. Am I right?

[Konstadin Kantzavelos]

That's correct.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I'm interested in your business. I'm interested in what you've done and what other businesses like yours are doing in that regard.

[Konstadin Kantzavelos]

Basically, what I can share with everyone here, to make everyone understand, is that a lot of times people—perhaps even some in this room—will clean their dress shirts at home, take them to a dry cleaner and say, “They've already been cleaned. I just want them ironed.” In our process, every single dress shirt is pressed damp. The reason why it's pressed damp is that it's fed on a body unit that can do 50 to 75 shirts per hour. It would take you a lifetime to press your shirts in one sitting, compared to how we process things.

Those investments are not cheap. The equipment that we invest in is very expensive, but it does make a big difference in allowing us to produce more pieces and maximize our revenue streams. We're working against the clock every day. We need to maximize the number of pieces that we're producing.

That's why I brought up the importance of productivity. When the deputy governor made that statement in the Financial Post, it really resonated with us because we're not what she's talking about. We are productive. That's one of the main reasons why, if you walked into a cleaner a couple of years ago and then walked in again today, you'd see prices relatively close to where they were, which is not what you're seeing in other industries. Productivity is a key thing for our business. It always has been.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, MP Baker.

Now we're going to go to MP Davies, please, for six minutes.