Finance Committee on May 7th, 2024

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Minister, respectfully, the question is whether we made a mistake—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

No, no. You were talking about how we're issuing our debt. Let me just finish my sentence—

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

We're now halfway into the two and a half minutes here—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

The spread on that debt was 10 basis points. It was issued last month, and that is the lowest spread relative to U.S. treasuries of any other issuer.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

That's wonderful—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

That speaks to the strength of Canada's fiscal position and of our debt management.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

The truth is that the decision of the government during COVID to issue short-term debt was absolutely negligent, in that it's now costing taxpayers an extra $10 billion a year. You would have extra money to give to Mr. Davies' or other Canadians' priorities had you not done that. We'll agree to disagree on that point.

Do you know how many people are going to be hired through the measures that are proposed in the budget?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

That's a very broad question.

What I will say is that the measures proposed by the budget, I believe, will increase Canada's growth, will do so in a way that is fiscally responsible and thus allow inflation to continue to stabilize, creating conditions that will allow the Bank of Canada to lower rates.

I am very happy to take the opportunity to point out that 1.2 million more Canadians are employed today than were employed before COVID—

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I think we're going to see a strongly growing economy, and that will mean more jobs for Canadians across the country.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much.

For every budget bill that comes to this committee, we ask the same question every time, and nobody has an answer. Twenty-five per cent of the government's savings objectives are linked to the shrinking of the public service over time, yet no one in the government actually seems to have a plan for people.

I'll go to my very last question.

In our last exchange when you were here, I brought up an individual who's on the Infrastructure Bank board. You're the Deputy Prime Minister and you hold significant influence in cabinet.

Has this individual, Ms. Andrée-Lise Méthot, been asked to leave the Infrastructure Bank board, and are you concerned about the standard that this is setting for people who serve on our Crown corporations?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

In your previous question, Mr. Chambers, you didn't specify that you were concerned with the public service. You just talked about employment in Canada, and of course my objective is for more Canadians to have good jobs. The budget does, though, make clear that we believe it's important, when it comes to the public service, to have a levelling off. You will see clearly in the budget text that we're going to see the size of the public service, over time, decrease by 5,000 employees. That is absolutely appropriate. It is part of responsible fiscal management.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, MP Chambers.

These will be the final five minutes, MP Dzerowicz.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I have two questions for you as well. I'm going to start where I ended last time, when we were talking about the importance of a strong economy for our federal government.

You introduced investment tax credits in the fall economic statement. You introduced additional investment tax credits in federal budget 2024. Can you talk to us about how you see investment tax credits helping Canadian businesses remain competitive in a global marketplace while we are pushing Canada towards a more sustainable economy?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Look, all kinds of ritualized jousting aside, I am really glad to have.... That was the last time, I know, but we haven't jousted that much today. I do want to be really sincere in talking about these investment tax credits. I think they are something that every MP here should support.

Mr. Davies has been clear that he is a Vancouver MP and is cheering for the Canucks, but something Mr. Davies, I and Mr. Hallan have in common is a close connection to Alberta. These tax credits are really important for Alberta, so I say to Mr. Hallan directly, “Please help us get them passed into law.” The last time I was in Calgary, I heard from Alberta business that they really need these tax credits and they need the certainty that comes from their being actual law in order to make investments. That's speaking to those with Alberta connections.

Julie, you and Ryan and I and I think Mr. Chambers and Mr. Lawrence are all Ontario MPs—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

—and, oh my God, our chair, so there are a lot of Ontario MPs here. Our province is so much a workhorse for the Canadian economy. I am proud of generations of Canadians who, unlike some other major industrialized economies, didn't give up our manufacturing base in the 1980s and 1990s, as happened in some other peer countries. Right now we're at a moment when, as a country, we have to decide: Do we continue to be a strong, powerful, industrialized manufacturing economy in the clean transition? These tax credits are about the government saying, “This is absolutely essential, and we're going to do it.”

Mr. Ste‑Marie, I want to point out that we are working closely with the province of Ontario on its investment tax credits. We also have an amazing collaboration with the province of Quebec. I must say that Mr. Legault personally agrees with the idea that today, in this period of global economic transition, we must have an industrial policy. The government has to be involved in this process because otherwise the capital will not be invested here, in Canada.

Finally, the proof of the pudding is in the results. In 2023, Canada had the most FDI per capita of any G7 country, the highest total quantum of FDI and the third highest in the world. Only the U.S. and Brazil were ahead of us, and they are much more populous countries.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Do I have time for another question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have 30 seconds.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I'll just say thank you, then.

Thank you for coming here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Dzerowicz.

Thank you, Minister.

We're right at one o'clock.

We want to thank you for coming here before our committee on Bill C-69, the budget implementation act.

We thank you even more in bringing all of us together in cheering for the Canucks or the Oilers. Hopefully a Canadian team goes on to win the Stanley Cup. We are all in agreement on that.

Thank you and have a wonderful day today.

We thank Mr. Jovanovic for coming here and being with us.

Members, we are suspended now.

[The meeting was suspended at 1:01 p.m., Thursday, May 9]

[The meeting resumed at 2:08 p.m. on Friday, May 17]

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jasraj Singh Hallan]

Good afternoon, colleagues. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the continuation of meeting number 142 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to Standing Order 15.1.

Before we begin, I would like to remind all members and other meeting participants in the room of the following important preventative measures.

To prevent disruptive and potentially harmful audio feedback incidents that can cause injuries, all in-person participants are reminded to keep their earpieces away from all microphones at all times. As indicated in the communiqué from the Speaker to all members on Monday, April 29, the following measures have been taken to help prevent audio feedback incidents.

All earpieces have been replaced by a model that greatly reduces the probability of audio feedback. The new earpieces are black in colour, whereas the former earpieces were grey. Please use only an approved black earpiece. By default, all unused earpieces will be unplugged at the start of a meeting.

When you are not using your earpiece, please place it face down on the middle of the sticker for this purpose, which you will find on the table, as indicated. Please consult the cards on the table for guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents. Also, the room layout has been adjusted to increase the distance between microphones and reduce the chance of feedback from an ambient earpiece.

These measures are in place so that we can conduct our business without interruption and to protect the health and safety of all participants including the interpreters.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For members in the room, please raise your hand if you wish to speak. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as well as we can. We appreciate your understanding in this regard. I will remind everyone that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Thank you all for your co-operation.

The chair has convened the meeting today, pursuant to a request by five members under Standing Order 106(4), to discuss the recent revelations regarding TD Bank Group and allegations of failing to report money laundering related to the trafficking of the illegal hard drug fentanyl and other money-laundering violations across the financial sector in Canada.

Mr. Chambers, I see that your hand is up.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to start the meeting if we may.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jasraj Singh Hallan]

Sure. Go ahead, Mr. Chambers.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate colleagues for coming together this afternoon.

As you know, money laundering is a very important issue that we've been talking about for quite some time, one for which we put a motion on notice on Tuesday, March 19. That was distributed by the clerk in both official languages. For those of you who would like to pull up that motion, it was on Tuesday, March 19, from our meeting. Verbal notice of it was given.

I'd like to move that motion officially here today, Mr. Chair.