Finance Committee on May 7th, 2024

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, you are misstating what I said. I'm not defending any of the practices that you falsely allege that I did, but—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That's debate. State your point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm speaking and other members are engaging in crosstalk, so it's either verboten or isn't.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I wasn't on mic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're asking for no—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Your microphone was on, sir.

My point was narrowly on the issue of the relevance of crosstalk to health and safety.

Ms. Dzerowicz and Mr. Turnbull are engaging in crosstalk now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Genuis, let me allow you to speak about your crosstalk—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I think you're just making things up about me, Chair, and I understand that you have a reason to do that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

It's not about you, Mr. Genuis. It's about crosstalk. It's about—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order now and you're talking over me.

I'm just perplexed by the idea that if I'm speaking and you start talking at the same time, I'm somehow responsible for that crosstalk. I would think that if I'm raising a point of order and you start speaking at the same time, you have at least a greater share of responsibility for the crosstalk than I do.

This issue was dealt with at the natural resources committee, and I would encourage you to speak to Mr. Chahal, who I think had a bit of egg on his face after some of the claims he made, even if he didn't acknowledge it. It's clearly in the record that he had to come back to the committee to clarify that while crosstalk makes it more difficult to interpret, it does not lead to negative health and safety outcomes. There are other things that do, but this is specifically on the issue of crosstalk.

Now, I still think crosstalk should be avoided, but I don't understand how you believe, when I'm trying to speak and raise a point of order, as I was, and you are repeatedly denying my right to speak, that I'm in the wrong for asserting a principle of the privileges of members. That's why I raised the question of privilege.

The priority should be adherence to the rules. The rules protect all of us. They protect you as chair. They protect me as an individual member. They protect the regular members. All you have to do as chair to succeed in your role is enforce the rules that are established. That's all you have to do. Don't make up new rules. Enforce the rules that are established.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I will give you my ruling, MP Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I know you're coming in at the same time, which is creating crosstalk, but I just encourage you to enforce the rules as they're established.

Now I'm done, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you're going to enforce the rules that are written—not make up Peter Fonseca's rules, but enforce the rules that are in House of Commons Procedure and Practice.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Go ahead on a point of order, MP Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I request that for every point of order, you ask that the Standing Orders be referenced, because none of that was a point of order and you have to chair the meeting. Please do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Green and MP Genuis.

Just before I go to my ruling, I will note again health and safety. I will not stop reiterating this for our interpreters. I have heard how crosstalk affects them and how many of them have been hurt, and we want to stop that from happening. I disagree with what MP Genuis had to say on that.

Now, on my ruling, and this is from House of Commons Procedure and Practice on page 1036—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'm giving my ruling.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have a point of order, though.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

It is:

Substitutes for members who are officers of the committee (for example, its Chair or Vice-Chair) do not, however, assume the prerogatives or responsibilities related to these positions.

At meetings, the very principle of substitution means that it may occur only when the substituted member is absent from the meeting.

As we know and we all saw, MP Hallan was still here in the room as MP Genuis came through—I don't even know if he was sitting at the table—and started going on at the mic about whatever he was going on about.

That is my ruling, members.

MP Genuis, if you want to look at the House of Commons...that's my ruling.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Do you want to challenge my ruling?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, you didn't rule on the question of privilege. I think you ruled on a question of order. To provide further clarity ahead of your ruling on the question of privilege—

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

That's not a point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—I at no point asserted that I was substituting.