Thank you. No, there's no wine there, unfortunately.
The subamendment we're debating deals with the proposed invitation of Mr. Mark Carney to appear before the committee. It reads as follows:
That the week of the 28th and future meetings be dedicated to hearing from witnesses for no fewer than 12 hours and the clerk invite Mr. Mark Carney as a witness to testify with respect to Budget 2024, the economy and the environment for no fewer than two hours.
This has been something we've put forward. Conservatives are interested in hearing from Mr. Mark Carney for a number of different reasons. I will just point out that although committees do not have the power to order the appearance of a minister or a party leader or a member of Parliament or a prime minister, these are positions that Mr. Carney, according to repeated news reports, aspires to, but he doesn't currently hold, which means that the committee actually does have the power to order the appearance of Mr. Mark Carney. Yes, the committee could decide to compel his appearance.
Conservatives have taken, I think, a very measured, moderate and respectful approach in this case, and we have not put an order to appear in the subamendment. We haven't suggested consequences for non-appearance. We haven't proposed, for instance, the matter could be referred to the House as a matter of privilege if Mr. Carney did not appear. This is merely an invitation—I should say a genteel courtesy—provided to somebody who no doubt has an evident interest in participating in public debate around the matters that have been described in the motion —the budget, as well as the economy and the environment more generally.
Mr. Carney seems to actively seek platforms on which to speak about his perspectives on these issues. It can hardly be thought of as hostile or unkind for the gracious and genteel members of the Conservative caucus in this committee to offer this invitation to Mr. Carney.
This subamendment could be adopted, and Mr. Carney might write back to the committee and say, “ No, thank you. I prefer softball questions to the challenging, thoughtful and probing questions that members like Mr. Chambers might ask.” That might be his response. The motion as written does not prescribe any negative consequences if he were to provide that response.
I wonder why the Liberals have been so triggered by an invitation that might be offered to Mr. Carney. I will just note that a similar invitation has been extended by various Liberal conventions. If Liberal conventions could invite Mr. Carney to speak without objection, then why would these same members object to him appearing before this committee? We might ask him somewhat more substantial questions than the current Minister Ien did. Nonetheless, he is a public person seeking public platforms to comment on public issues, and we are providing him with an invitation to participate in that public debate.
It's not clear to me why the government in general, and I believe the NDP as well, have not warmed to this recommendation, although maybe the NDP are in favour of it. I guess we'll see.
The key point here is that it's an invitation. It may be that government members don't want Mr. Carney to appear because the Prime Minister is uncomfortable with our willingness to help Mr. Carney raise his profile. It may be that Mr. Carney does not want to receive the invitation, although surely if he didn't want to receive the invitation, he could simply decline it and that would be that. The implication of the unwillingness of government members to allow Mr. Carney to be invited suggests that maybe he would be willing to appear.
There are others who do not want him to appear. Perhaps the Liberal whip is considering a Liberal leadership run herself and would rather not provide Mr. Carney the profile and has provided corresponding instructions to committee members. They're curious, the steps that have been taken by the Liberals; therefore, it does invite these kinds of speculations about the curious machinations going on in the Liberal caucus these days.
Why do we want to hear from Mark Carney?
One thing I should mention before that is that Mr. Carney recently appeared before the Senate finance committee, I believe. It is also curious that he was happy to make himself available to that committee.
We have two chambers, the House and the Senate. A third chamber is here, Adam Chambers. We have the House, the Senate and Adam Chambers. We have three chambers in our system. Mr. Carney has appeared before one of them. We would propose that he have a chance to appear before the other two at the same time. Why is there a willingness to appear before the Senate and not the House?
There were very talented Conservative senators who did appear and did ask questions of Mr. Carney. Surely elected members of the House speaking on behalf of their constituents should have the opportunity to do the same.
Why is it that we have an interest in hearing from Mr. Carney? I think that there are a number of different reasons. The perspectives that Mr. Mark Carney has on the budget and on other topics related to the economy and the environment are an important matter of speculation, because Mr. Carney is very clearly positioning and organizing himself to contest the Liberal leadership when it becomes available.
Nobody knows the day or the hour when that will occur. It will of course occur at some point. Such is the nature of things. The expectation is, based on the positioning, on the campaigning that's happening by Mr. Carney and his team, that he will contest the leadership of the Liberal Party.
I will say as well that the Liberal Party has a history of having somewhat undemocratic leadership races. They have a history of trying to engineer coronations for chosen candidates. I think, for instance, that a previous chosen one was Michael Ignatieff, much favoured by the Liberal executive, showing their political insight in the course of engineering that leadership race at that time.
If Mr. Carney contests this and if he is the chosen one of the Liberal elites, he may even briefly serve as prime minister prior to the next election. We don't know, of course, but it is in the context of his leadership positioning that there is a great deal of speculation about what his views are on various subjects and how those views could inform the direction of our country. It is in that spirit of trying on behalf of our constituents to get clarity on the approach he would take on certain issues that members are seeking his attendance at committee.
There's another particular reason why I'm interested in hearing from Mr. Mark Carney. Before I get to that, though, Chair, I do want to make sure we have quorum because I want to make sure members hear what I have to say.
Do we have a quorum?