Chair, just on that point of order—I am keen to avoid crosstalk, so I let you finish and now I'll make my comments—you said, “the Standing Orders state”. Then you read some text off your phone, or appeared to behave as if you were reading some text. The text you were reading is not actually text in the Standing Orders. If it is, I wonder if you could cite the specific standing order.
What I just did was say that I was about to read Standing Order 119, and then I proceeded to read Standing Order 119. You asserted an idea, a concept, a doctrine. I mean, it might be what you think the Standing Orders should be, but it's not actually what the Standing Orders are.
Standing Order 119 explicitly says the following:
Any member of the House who is not a member of a standing, special or legislative committee, may, unless the House or the committee concerned otherwise orders, take part in the public proceedings of the committee
What that means is that if there is an order of the committee, one that the committee has adopted and that the committee has voted on, to say that notwithstanding the usual practice, it will not allow associate members to raise points of order or to speak—and the committee may adopt such an order—then that order applies. However, in the absence of an order, the rules established under Standing Order 119 apply. This is what every single other chair in this place knows and has applied.
Now, I think we have a general problem in terms of understanding how rules should apply and what constitutes decorum, because you got very angry at me yesterday and proceeded to make all kinds of disparaging personal comments. I don't take that personally, but I'm concerned about adherence to the rules. You got very angry when I repeatedly tried to raise points of order that simply involved stating the rule that every other chair knows. You don't know that rule, or maybe you don't want to know that rule, but Standing Order 119 doesn't give you the discretion to ignore it.
I hope we don't have this problem going forward. I would like to spend as much of my time as I can on the balance of my remarks. I just think it's important for you to understand that your authority as chair does not come from your arbitrary will. Your authority as chair emanates from the rules. The rules establish that you, as chair, do have certain authority over certain matters. You also don't have authority over other matters. You can't order a member to change their tie colour or to get a haircut or something. That's outside your jurisdiction as chair. You can order a member to take certain action in the context of a committee meeting. When a member moves a certain motion, you can proceed to call it. There are actions that you can take as chair. Those are prescribed by the rules.
What was happening yesterday was that you were kind of demanding adherence to your arbitrary will, even though your arbitrary will was explicitly at odds with what was in Standing Order 119. You characterized my actions in the committee in curious ways. You said that a member can't just barge into a committee, sit down at the table and raise points of order.
Well, actually, a member is welcome to enter a committee meeting. That's what Standing Order 119 says. There are special cases where a special order has been adopted, but a member is welcome to enter a committee room. Any one of my colleagues can go into any committee room.
In fact, it may have just occurred. A member who may not be a regular member of this committee has just walked through the door of the committee room. I would affirm his right to do so. I wouldn't characterize him as having barged in. I would say he has a right to come into the room. He's providing, in fact, an object lesson in precisely the point I'm making. Some would deem his action of bringing donuts as disruptive. I do not. I affirm his right, his privilege, to proceed as he has. If this gentleman were to sit at the table and raise a point of order, again, he would be protected by Standing Order 119 in his ability to do so.
I hope that can be received, Chair, in a spirit of fraternal correction, because I have sensed the hostility you feel. I do just want to challenge all chairs to know the rules.
The rules are what protect your credibility in your position, and you don't have problems of order if you exercise the authority you're given by the rules.
I hope we will be able to operate going forward on the basis of adherence to the rules, and Chair, that you and I will have a more constructive and warm relationship going forward.
I will continue to enter committee rooms and to assert my right as a member on behalf of my constituents to do their work. I am not a regular member of the finance committee, but, nonetheless, my constituents do have an interest in finance issues, and they want me to speak—