Finance Committee on May 22nd, 2024

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

This may or may not be a point of order, Chair. You can cut me off and I'll yield the floor back to the honourable colleague from York—Simcoe, but I couldn't help noticing that he said we all care about the environment. It would be great if the honourable member from the official opposition put forth a credible plan on the environment. That would be wonderful to see.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Chair, I have tremendous respect for Mr. Sorbara, but that is not a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Sorbara.

We'll go back to MP Davidson.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Thank you.

That leads to the disconnect. We're talking about how this Liberal government, after nine years, is not listening to rural residents. It's like you've checked out. We know the shopping cart is now the most expensive vehicle in Canada to operate. I think all members on this committee know that.

Going back to doing the right thing on the environment, the northern part of my riding is on propane. Think about Canada. Think about the money we send to the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. My residents in York—Simcoe come to me and say, “Scot, I can't even get natural gas to my barn because I'm stuck on propane. I want to lower my costs and hire more people, but I can't even get natural gas lines.”

To my honourable colleague from Vaughan—Woodbridge, we talk about solutions. This is one solution. I think we can all agree in the room—I hope we can—that natural gas can be a bridge fuel, an alternative, in the short term so that people aren't spending double the money and creating double the emissions with propane. In York—Simcoe, though, we can't even get our natural gas lines.

The other part of that is hydro. I have farmers who want to start small businesses and small canning operations. We are stuck with old, phase-one infrastructure.

These are the things affecting my residents of York—Simcoe, who I'm here to stand up for.

Coming back to the budget, I have to speak about my hometown of Georgina. Walking through this, we're talking about the rural top-up that we're being denied. We're talking about old infrastructure. That's not happening. I haven't even gotten to the Lake Simcoe cleanup fund. That's a whole other apple cart, so to speak. That's a promise the Deputy Prime Minister made in the 2019 election. She stood on the shores of Lake Simcoe and promised $40 million in the budget. Think about that. After nine years, we are still waiting.

We're talking about action on the environment, but let's talk about another thing: the housing accelerator fund.

I think my colleague from Vaughan—Woodbridge knows I am a York Region MP. I'm one of two Conservative MPs in the York Region. It was interesting to me, as I was on the infrastructure committee after I was first elected, that the riding of York—Simcoe received less money than any Liberal riding in all of the York Region. We'll get to that.

I'm going to read this letter of March 5 from one of my mayors. I told her I would read it. She wrote:

To Scot Davidson,

On Feb. 28, 2024, the Town of Georgina was notified that our application to the Housing Accelerator Fund was declined. Town staff, including senior leadership, spent considerable time on the application over the summer of 2023, received guidance from CMHC on the merits of our application, and scored highly based on the application guidelines. Like many other municipalities, the Town of Georgina is a lean organization facing many priorities and challenges.

From a recent announcement, we learned that there were 544 applications to the federal Housing Accelerator Fund and only 179...were selected for funding. Asking municipalities to dedicate significant resources to prepare this complex application [littered with red tape] with a low chance of success would seem not to be in the best public interest.

We have seen recent announcements about municipalities of comparable size to Georgina receiving funding, and noticed many similarities between the actions they propose and the ones we proposed in our application. Based on the publicly available data, we believe our application was exceptionally competitive and deserving of funding.

At the same time, CMHC has let us know that they are not allowed to discuss the individual scores or assessment details of our application, preventing us from understanding where our application fell short. Without this information, we are unable to conclude whether the funding decision was entirely merit-based. Without this funding, our municipality will have to find other sources of funding to enable the provision of this critical housing supply, placing a further financial burden on our local government.

I would like to ask the federal government to respond as to how they will be supporting municipalities that submitted competitive applications but did not receive funding. I am also requesting a meeting with the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities to discuss our concerns.

Thank you,

Margaret Quirk

Mayor of the Town of Georgina

When I received that letter, was I surprised? Unfortunately, no, but I think what would be surprising to the members of this committee and to me, being a York Region MP.... I'd ask you this, Mr. Chair, and I'm sure you can't answer, not because you don't want to, but because it's probably not permitted, as I'm a first-timer on this committee. Do you know, as per Stats Canada, the fastest-growing area in all of Canada? My colleague from Vaughan—Woodbridge, I'm sure, would want to suggest that it is Vaughan, but shockingly—and probably shockingly to everyone in this committee—it is East Gwillimbury in my riding.

I received this letter from the Town of Georgina on the housing accelerator fund. I think it's important for people at this committee to understand where we are in Canada with infrastructure and waste water.

I have a nursing home in York—Simcoe that is tired and aged. The province has stepped up with operators to build a new nursing home. They have to transfer the water and sewer allocations from the existing nursing home to the new nursing home, and that old nursing home is going to sit vacant. There's nothing we can do because there are no more water and sewer allocations. Why does that trouble people in my community? When they see the federal government paying exorbitant amounts of interest because of their failure to secure low interest rates, there is a day of reckoning that comes. People in my community know that the budget doesn't balance itself.

To recap where we are right now on the rule top-up, propane and aged hydro infrastructure, we can look at the housing accelerator fund. I think members of this committee are starting to get the picture that the people in York—Simcoe are on the outside looking in. Shockingly enough—and I'm sure it will be shocking to my colleague, the member for Vaughan—Woodbridge, because it was shocking to me—the mayor of East Gwillimbury, following the mayor of Georgina, applied for the housing accelerator fund.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm sure they got it, right?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

No.

I have three big areas in York—Simcoe, those being Georgina, East Gwillimbury and Bradford West Gwillimbury, which, again, make up the fastest-growing area in Canada. After I received a phone call, I pre-emptively said that I had to call the mayor of Bradford West Gwillimbury, because surely we couldn't go oh for three. There's no possible way. In my small towns, given the waste-water situation, there was no way Bradford West Gwillimbury could be denied the housing accelerator fund as well. Unbelievably, they were denied.

[An hon. member]

Wow.

[An hon. member]

That's brutal.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Three strikes and you're out.

I was in shock that the fastest-growing communities in Canada were all turned down for the housing accelerator fund. Again, when I look back at York—Simcoe in 2019 and the amount of money this federal government has spent, York—Simcoe is at the bottom of the list.

More concerning to me when I spoke to the mayors was how many third party resources there were and how much money these towns had to spend on these applications. Why is that shocking now? They explained the red tape and, going back to the letter, how involved the applications were and the dedication people put into them. At the time, I reflected on the money I spent doing a bare trust when this government all of a sudden said they were not going to do that anymore. I'm still not sure who to send the $400 bill for the accountant. Other people have written to me about who's going to reimburse that, but that's another story.

What's concerning about this is that the Liberal government increased the federal public service by 40%, and honestly, Mr. Chair, you have to ask yourself whether Canadians are getting 40% better service. Are my municipalities involved in this housing accelerator fund getting better services? Do we want to see our municipalities spending enormous amounts of money on applications?

[An hon. member]

It doesn't make sense.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

It makes absolutely no sense, and again, it's shocking.

I take the tack of looking at my community and the rural top-up. I'm sure the members of the Liberal Party are thinking, “Scot, you're talking about the rural top-up, so that means you agree with the carbon tax.” No, I don't agree with the carbon tax. We will axe the tax, and I can tell you this: While I'm the member of Parliament for York—Simcoe, I will fight for every nickel that my community deserves. After all, it's their money.

I represent the soup and salad bowl of Canada, so we can talk about Bill C-234. If we look at the—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

On a point of order, PS Turnbull, please go ahead.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

With all due respect, Chair, based on relevance, I would ask you, if you wouldn't mind, to encourage the member to get back to the topic at hand, which is a debate on a subamendment that was proposed by the Conservatives. I don't hear any relevance. I'm stretching and listening intently, and I really want to hear the relevance.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I would like to speak to that point of order.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Maybe Mr. Davidson could bring it back around and relate it to the subamendment at some point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, PS Turnbull.

MP Hallan.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

On that point of order, I don't want to put words in my great colleague Scot Davidson's mouth, but I understand that so far everyone's interventions have had discussions on what the budget does and doesn't have in it. We're talking about the carbon tax scam, and it is mentioned in the budget. It's just something that Mr. Davidson didn't see.

I will remind everyone that Bill C-234 was one of our demands for the budget, which is very relevant. The topic at hand, which Mr. Davidson is talking about, was a demand from the Conservatives for us to maybe look into it and help pass it, but it was not included. I think Mr. Davidson was just making that point.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I want to speak to that point of order as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Go ahead on the point of order, Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I will just quickly read the subamendment we are debating:

That the week of the 28th and future meetings be dedicated to hearing from witnesses for no fewer than 12 hours and the clerk invite Mr. Mark Carney as a witness to testify with respect to the Budget 2024, the economy and the environment for no fewer than two hours.

I will grant Mr. Turnbull that the carbon tax has very little to do with the environment, but it certainly is hurting our economy so it's completely within scope.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Lawrence.

MP Davidson, just try to stay focused on the subamendment and be relevant, please.

You may continue.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank my colleague from Whitby for the intervention. I think that is part of the problem, and that's what I'm trying to explain to the room so that he understands the carbon tax. The PBO has said that eight out of 10 Canadians don't receive back more. The Prime Minister and my Liberal colleagues here love to say otherwise, but do you know what, Mr. Chair? Even if we stretched that—I hate to use the word “untruthful”, but we'll stretch it—what about the two out of 10? They always say the eight out of 10, and I reflect on what our Canadian Forces say: We leave no one behind. There should never be an eight out of 10. There should always be a 10 out of 10.

I'm trying to explain to my colleagues the rural top-up. Again, talking about affordability now for my residents and standing up for my residents, the carbon tax is basically just a pool of money. It's like an Amway scam almost. We'll look at it like that. It is a single pool of money, and York—Simcoe, I feel, technically could send a bill to the federal government for the rural top-up that we haven't received. It is probably north of $40 million that my residents should have received.

Why does the government not want to recognize the rural top-up for York—Simcoe? It's because it would mean everyone else will get less. I'm in a Conservative riding—this big blue dot in the middle of York—Simcoe—and if they were to give me the rural top-up, everyone else in this room would get less.

If we look at Bill C-234, speaking of the economy and the environment, the carbon tax pool, I believe, is heavily subsidized by farmers. I've seen the bills in my community. In the northern end of the riding, we bring in a lot of grain for drying by propane, and there are other farmers coming into York—Simcoe to dry their grain. In the soup and salad bowl of Canada, drying onions has to be done, but I want my colleagues to understand that we are starting to see more onions coming in from Morocco, from Egypt, from different parts of the world. Why does that matter to Canadians? It's about food security.

For things grown here, we are starting to see less and less. Because of affordability and because of inflation, margins for farmers have shrunk so much, and Canada is losing the competitive edge. Now there are onions coming in, being imported. Because of those margins, we can't compete internationally now. We can't do it, and that is so unfortunate to see.

Again, the people of York—Simcoe are not getting the rural top-up. On the housing accelerator fund, not one town in the northern six got any money. On aged infrastructure, we see taxpayer money going to the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank and not being spent on our infrastructure. We can't get natural gas lines. It's aged infrastructure again with hydro. I have farmers who want to create businesses and start small canning operations, but they can't even get three-phase power.

When my colleagues sit in the House and wonder why people in York—Simcoe say this government is not listening and why people are frustrated, this is why they're frustrated, just to start with those things. The government says it's doing this; it's doing that, and it has free dental care and pharmacare for everyone. I would challenge any member of this committee to come with me to York—Simcoe for a day. This is about standing up for residents. Do you know what people in my riding are saying? They're saying, “I'd love a family doctor, Scot.” Think about the government programs that have come from this government. They can't even manage immigration, and there's another program and another program and another program.

Things are getting worse. People in my riding can't even get a family doctor. As shocking as it is, I know my colleagues here like to blame everybody else for the situation that everyone is in. First they'll tell you that Canadians have never had it so good and that we have a AAA credit rating, even though you can't put a AAA credit rating on a hot dog. I think we all know that. Tell that to the millions of people who are going to food banks. However, they'll say we've never had it so good. I think that's why it's important to understand this. We don't even have a hospital.

On technology, my colleague from Whitby should google how long it takes to walk from Georgina Island to the hospital to visit a loved one. The only hospital, Southlake, is outside of the riding of York—Simcoe. It takes 23 hours to walk there. This Liberal government will try to square the circle and say, “Scot, you're part of Toronto.” This is where my residents of York—Simcoe get very upset. They are being classified as Toronto and are quite frankly being ripped off on something they're entitled to. After all, we know that this is a big bait and switch with the carbon tax. It's their money that they're owed. It's not the government giving them money. It actually took money from them, which it owes them.

To recap, we're here today talking about why things are not working for the people of York—Simcoe. The recap is important so that people understand that the circle has never been squared. I think the most frustrating part about being an MP is not being able to help people when you know there's a solution to the problem.

Believe me, I will never put words in anyone's mouth, but I have to walk through this. I did speak with the Minister of Natural Resources about the rural top-up. He agreed that there is a problem with the CMAs, but he said, “Scot, you'll have to see the minister of rural affairs. That was done out east.” I then went back to the announcement, and I think what was even more shocking for me was the Liberal government dividing and gaslighting Canadians based on geography. I looked at their announcement out east on the heat pumps and I was shocked. All of a sudden, for the Minister of Housing's riding and the riding of the member for Avalon, which was supposed to become urban under the CMA, they announced a doubling of the rural top-up. As I always say in life, read the fine print. They actually rolled the CMA data back to 2015 so those Liberal ridings would receive the rural top-up.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Oh, that's not good.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Again, talk about being on the outside looking in.

I want my colleagues to understand this: When I see people in Pefferlaw—Pefferlaw is a great little town—how would you like me to explain to them how the whole of Prince Edward Island all of a sudden became rural? Downtown Charlottetown now gets the rural top-up. Think about that. Ridings in Halifax and Nova Scotia get the rural top-up because this government has rolled the CMA data back for them. I have to stand in Pefferlaw or take a ferry over to the Georgina Island first nations and explain to people why they don't get the rural top-up. I reflect on downtown Charlottetown and the amenities and transit they have. We have none of that.

Again, I've asked my colleagues to circle the square. I saw the minister of rural affairs, and she said, “Scot, I know there's a problem with that, but I really don't know what to do. You should see the Minister of Industry”, because the CMAs are apparently controlled by Industry. I saw the minister, and he said, “I know there's a problem, but you're going to have to see the Minister of Finance.” Think about this. I've had three discussions with three different ministers. They realize there's a problem. I spoke to the Minister of the Environment too, who said, “I know, Scot. How do we fix it?”

Shockingly enough, I have written two letters to the Minister of Finance on this issue. Do you think I received a response? Think about it. I represent over 120,000 people, which I'm honoured to do. One individual has written the Minister of Finance twice on this issue. There's not even an acknowledgement—nothing. It's crickets. We have three ministers who know there's an issue. I know that among my colleagues across the way—again, I'll never put words in anyone's mouth—there are MPs representing ridings in Ontario in the same situation as me.

This is what frustrates me and Canadians. We're here to deliver results for our communities and help our colleagues understand the issues our communities are facing, but this government is not listening. I know I have colleagues across from me who do listen and understand, but the powers that be are not changing things, and it's making life more and more unaffordable for people in my community.

It's important for me to recap the budgetary items, to go back to the economy. I know we're asking for carbon tax Carney to come. As I talked about, we were looking in the budget for the Lake Simcoe cleanup fund, but we didn't see it. We haven't seen it. Quite frankly, after nine years.... That's why we say this Prime Minister is not worth the cost. He's not worth the cost to the residents of York—Simcoe.

Just so that my colleagues have a recap of where we're at in York—Simcoe, I'll note there's no rural top-up. There's no Lake Simcoe cleanup fund nine years after the promise was made by the Deputy Prime Minister, who has not acknowledged any letters that I've sent to her about the rural top-up. There is aging infrastructure. There are absolutely zero housing accelerator funds. I get concerned about York Region—being represented by Liberal MPs and the northern six as part of York Region—getting zero funds. I'm not sure how the member for Newmarket—Aurora is going to square this circle with the mayor of Aurora. There are no housing funds. There is aging infrastructure. There are a number of residents on propane who would love to go to natural gas. There is aged hydro infrastructure.

There are also no family doctors, but let's get four other government programs going and tell Canadians how they've never had it so good. This is just not the reality facing the people of York—Simcoe. I hope that my colleagues across from me understand that. I'd love to have a sidebar, but I'm sure the member for Whitby or the member for Vaughan—Woodbridge is going to explain to me how Pefferlaw really is Toronto. As I said, we're too Toronto to get the rural top-up, but we're not Toronto enough for any housing accelerator funds.

I'm not a mayor. I would never tell a mayor what to do. However, I believe Toronto got $560 million in housing accelerator funds. I know the member for Vaughan—Woodbridge crunches numbers and may know the number, because I don't know the exact number, but I think that's what the City of Toronto got. If I was the mayor of the town of Georgina, I would definitely pick up the phone and ask Mayor Chow where Georgina's cut of that is, because we got absolutely nothing—zero. It wouldn't take the scum off rice pudding.

I think everyone here now understands what my residents are facing on just those few topics. We have no federal buildings and no federal lands in York—Simcoe. We have no federal offices, and it's getting more and more frustrating for the people of York—Simcoe. At the end of the day, I've gotten this issue out. Again, I think it's important for all members here to understand the disconnect between rural and urban and how frustrating it is.

I will yield my time to the member for Northumberland—Peterborough South. I was going to say Peterborough only. It's a great town. They used to build great motors there by OMC. It was unbelievable when Canada built things and invested in things. I know members going to tell us about the battery plants. I'd still like to know where our seat on the board is—I haven't seen that—and how many shares we have. Did we get a seat on the board and shares in those companies with the $60 billion in investments? We could have bought the whole Ford Motor Company cheaper, but we'll let them go on about that.

It was great to be here, Mr. Chair. You're smiling, as usual. It's all good.