Finance Committee on May 30th, 2024

[Maximilian Baylor, Director General, Business Income Tax Division, Department of Finance]

Yes, I can take that one.

There is a key test, really, as you may be aware, as part of the eligibility criteria to access the credit. There is an advisory board that looks at the eligibility for the tax measures. The advisory board's mandate is to provide an independent assessment and make a written recommendation—

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I'm going to run out of time, so just very quickly—I apologize—who appoints the advisory board?

[Maximilian Baylor]

I believe the advisory board—

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I think they're Governor in Council appointees. Is that right?

[Maximilian Baylor]

I'd have to confirm that, but that's—

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

My understanding is that cabinet will decide who decides whether a journalistic organization is partisan, and cabinet, as I understand, is made up of a bunch of elected people who are partisan.

I think I've exhausted my time, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Mr. Hammond. Thank you for your answers. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, MP Chambers.

Now we go to MP Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

Thank you all very much for being here and for all the work you do every day in service of Canadians, supporting and working on behalf of our government.

Elected folks are typically the ones, I think, that Canadians see the most on television and read about in the newspapers, but there are so many of you who work very hard every day and make a difference for Canadians every day. You have my thanks for your work and for being here today.

I wanted to ask some questions to officials from industry. Is there somebody here from industry?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Members, I will stop the time in transition as people make their way to the table.

Please introduce yourselves.

[Andre Arbour, Director General, Telecommunications and Internet Policy Branch, Department of Industry]

Good morning. My name is Andre Arbour with Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada. I'm joined by my colleague Marc-André Rochon.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

That's wonderful. Thank you.

I wanted to ask about amendments to the Telecommunications Act regarding cancellation and switching fees for telecom companies. Could you speak to us about the intent of this measure and what the CRTC's role is in the implementation of those measures?

[Andre Arbour]

The intent of the amendments to the Telecommunications Act is to further support consumers in the telecom marketplace.

We have seen over the past year a marked improvement in terms of competition and pricing, notably for mobile pricing. Plans that were available for $70 or $80 a month a couple of years ago are now available in the $30 to $40 range.

People say, “Well, my bill hasn't changed. What's happening here?” The situation there is that they're on an older, legacy plan rather than one of the new plans that are in the marketplace. The provisions are designed to help consumers switch and find the best plan for them. There are three mechanisms that we've identified that can support consumers.

First is having an automatic self-service portal online. This does exist in some contexts, but could be stronger. This will help people find the best plan without necessarily having to be on hold with a customer service agent.

The second is a notification requirement whereby service providers need to provide notifications to their customers of current plans in the marketplace, so they can see what is currently available.

The third item is a prohibition on fees that can be associated with switching, which can then be an impediment or a barrier. Fees associated with switching are not particularly common in the marketplace, but they do exist, hence the goal of that provision.

Each of these three requirements has high-level objectives in the legislation, but we're talking about a technologically driven marketplace. Hence, the CRTC, as the independent regulator, is charged with translating these into the detailed rules that the service providers would need to follow.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

That's very helpful. Thank you.

I hear about the issue of cellphone bills from my constituents all the time. I know we've done a lot of work, and you just spoke about some of it in this legislation, that tries to address that and get the cost of cellphone bills down or at least to level out those costs.

What I hear you saying is that for a lot of Canadians out there, there are potentially cheaper plans available than the ones they are currently on. In other words, they could go to their cellphone provider, like Rogers or Bell or whatever, and contact them. If they do it in the appropriate way, potentially there are a lot of folks who could be signing on to a different plan that would serve their needs but cost them a lot less.

Is that what you're saying?

[Andre Arbour]

That is correct.

My staff tease me sometimes. I was on an older plan, and I was paying $50 a month for 10 gigabytes of data last year. This plan is still available—it's still on websites—but I switched to a 20-gigabyte plan for $29 a month. That's 40% cheaper, with twice the data.

I can tell you that Bay Street analysts who advise on investing in the telecom companies are a little nervous about this, because it cuts into the financial profitability and that type of thing, but there really has been a marked improvement. The amendments are designed to help support this.

There are other tools on ISED's website, for instance, that help people compare and shop for plans, so we do encourage consumers to engage in the marketplace.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

This is actually really exciting.

I want to make sure I'm clear. One of the measures in this legislation is about eliminating switching fees, so that telecom companies don't charge consumers when they say they want to switch from this more expensive plan to a cheaper plan. That's the switching fee part.

Also I hear you saying that there's going to be—and you didn't use this word—a portal or information publicly available that consumers can access, and they'll be able to figure out through that what plans are available or how to access cheaper plans.

[Andre Arbour]

I would nuance that.

That's correct on the switching fees. In terms of the portal, it is more about having 24-7 easy access to make the switch, rather than having to call a customer service representative.

There are already tools online that are listed on ISED's website. Common ones are called WhistleOut or ProtégezVous, which collect all of the plans across all of the providers, not just the one you happen to be with, and make it easy to compare prices across plans.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Where will consumers be able to access this information going forward?

[Andre Arbour]

ISED maintains a section on pricing specifically that has a range of resources measuring pricing, including these tools or guides to help switch. As well, the CRTC will be publicizing more detail as they implement the provisions in the BIA.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

This is really exciting news. It sounds like consumers can get cheaper cell phone plans, but we need to pass this legislation to make this happen.

That's fantastic.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Baker.

Now we will go to MP Ste-Marie, who is appearing virtually.

Go ahead, MP Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome all my colleagues and all the officials.

Thank you for being here.

My first questions will relate to the open banking system, but I would like to start by asking whether the person who has responsibility for talking about it is at the table.

[Kirsten Fraser, Director, Financial Services Division, Department of Finance]

Yes.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Hello, Ms. Fraser.

My concerns obviously relate to financial institutions that come under provincial jurisdiction and would like to participate in the open banking system. The institutions in question are credit co‑operatives, financial institutions owned by a province and certain trust companies.

The framework proposed by Bill C-69 is federal. You told us at a briefing that a financial institution under provincial jurisdiction could join the federal framework on an optional basis. However, we understand that if that institution wants to compete and participate in the open banking system, it will have to join the federal framework.

Is that correct?

[Kirsten Fraser]

I can talk about the objective of the framework.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

My speaking time is limited and I have several technical questions.