Finance Committee on May 31st, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you very much for those opening remarks.

We're going to hear from the Canadian Physiotherapy Association and Kayla Scott, please.

[Kayla Scott, Senior Director, Advocacy, Canadian Physiotherapy Association]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the esteemed members of this committee for having me here today.

My name is Kayla Scott, and I'm the senior director of advocacy at the Canadian Physiotherapy Association. Our association proudly represents over 16,000 physiotherapy professionals and students across Canada. Our members embody our mission to enhance health, mobility, rehabilitative care and treatment to enable Canadians to live well and actively in their communities.

Physiotherapy professionals demonstrate unwavering commitment to their patients and their communities, and they have a pivotal role in our health care system, providing invaluable services across diverse settings. In emergency departments in select provinces, they offer critical care, ensuring timely and effective treatment for acute conditions. Their expertise allows them to rapidly assess and treat patients, reducing wait times and alleviating pressure on our health care system. Their interventions can often be the difference between recovery and long-term complications, which underlines the importance of their work.

In long-term care facilities, physiotherapy professionals deliver essential rehabilitation therapy as part of their home care services. They create personalized care plans to improve residents' mobility, strength and overall well-being. This approach not only helps physical recovery and injury prevention but also strengthens mental and emotional health, promoting patient autonomy, positivity and resilience.

Additionally, physiotherapy professionals play a crucial role in prenatal care, offering specialized pelvic floor physiotherapy for expectant parents. This service supports prenatal health, prepares parents for childbirth and promotes postnatal recovery. The role of physiotherapy professionals in this area is often overlooked, yet it is essential in ensuring the health and well-being of both the parent and child.

Today I stand before you to express my gratitude for the recently announced expansion of the Canada student financial assistance program in budget 2024. This expansion, which now encompasses physiotherapists working in underserved, rural and remote communities, marks a significant step towards achieving health care equity and alleviating pressures from our health care system across Canada.

This pivotal decision announced in budget 2024 is the result of CPA's persistent advocacy and pre-budget recommendations and the unified voices of physiotherapy professionals and students. It represents a major achievement for all Canadians, especially those seeking equitable care in rural and remote areas.

The expansion of the CSFA program will yield a threefold benefit.

First, it will attract more Canadians to the physiotherapy profession by reducing the financial barriers to education. With the average student debt for physiotherapy students standing at $40,000, this assistance will provide significant relief, making the profession more accessible to a broader range of individuals.

Second, it will increase health service access and delivery in communities that face the barrier of long travel times to access care. By encouraging more physiotherapists to serve in these areas, we can ensure that every Canadian, regardless of their location, has access to high-quality health care.

Last, it will enhance the recruitment of students from rural communities and help promote a workforce that includes students from under-represented populations.

Our partners in health echo our sentiments. The Canadian Nurses Association applauded this expansion, as it supports team-based care that enables diverse health care professionals to collaborate and provide comprehensive, patient-centred services. The Canadian Orthopaedic Association also firmly supported this inclusion, recognizing its potential for patient recovery and strengthening our health care system at its core.

As National Physiotherapy Month ends today, we are firm in our commitment to build on this momentum. We will continue to advocate for policy changes that allow the profession to fully exercise its expertise through the optimization of scope of practice across the country, enabling physiotherapists to provide high-quality care at their optimal potential.

Our unwavering mission remains to ensure that every Canadian, irrespective of their location, has access to the quality of care they deserve.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Scott.

Now we'll hear from Fintechs Canada and Mr. Vronces.

[Alexander Vronces, Executive Director, Fintechs Canada]

Good afternoon to the chair, vice-chair and members of the Standing Committee on Finance. My name is Alex, and I am the executive director of Fintechs Canada.

Fintechs Canada is an industry association of Canada's most innovative financial technology companies. Our members collectively serve millions of Canadians on a daily basis.

Economic growth has slowed. Life is increasingly unaffordable. Canadian productivity has reached emergency status. At Fintechs Canada, we believe in whole-of-government solutions to problems like these.

One critical part of the solution needs to be boosting competition in banking, because our banking sector is partly to blame for the problem. That means passing the bits and pieces of an open banking framework we're starting to see in Bill C-69 without delay.

More competition in banking will make life more affordable for Canadians. Canada's banking sector is heavily concentrated, with little change over the past decade. Canadians pay higher banking fees than consumers in similar markets, such as the United Kingdom and Australia.

Canada's big banks make more and more of their money from what's called non-interest income—in other words, fees. These include account and investment management fees, payment processing fees and administrative fees on mortgages and other loans.

More competition in banking will also boost Canada's productivity. Canada's economy is mostly made up of small businesses, but Canada's small businesses receive less financing from our banks and pay more for it than their peers in other countries. Weak investment in Canada's small business community is a long-standing issue. How can our economy run at its best when the engine has no fuel to run on?

Consumer-driven banking will help boost competition in banking by putting consumers in control of their financial information. Suppose you're a recent immigrant who can't qualify for a loan because you don't have a Canadian credit history. With open banking, you can reliably and securely share your monthly rent payments with Borrowell's Rent Advantage app to build your credit score.

Maybe you're a small business and you don't want to rely on spreadsheets to manage your books. You can use open banking to reliably and securely share your transaction data with accounting platforms like Xero to automate your bookkeeping.

If you're having trouble tracking investment accounts at different banks, there are apps that let you view and manage them in a single dashboard. However, to share your data securely and reliably, you need open banking.

By empowering Canadians to reliably and securely share their financial information, Canadians will be better able to vote with their wallets. They can decide for themselves who will serve them best. What's more, Canadians can do this without having to decipher who's the most secure and resilient because of the consumer protection that comes with open banking.

As I have written before, open banking isn't really about opening the vault of financial data. That much has already happened. It's actually about closing it again and putting Canadians in charge, letting Canadians decide whom it can be open for, when it can be opened, how long it can be opened and for what purpose.

This is why Canada needs the consumer-driven banking act. It also needs a regulator such as the FCAC, well equipped for the job of policing the industry. The longer we wait, the further and further we will fall behind our G7 counterparts, who have already put their financial sectors to work to make their economies more competitive, affordable and productive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Mr. Vronces, I'm just going interject.

Could you speak a little bit more slowly so that our interpretation services can capture everything you're saying and be able to do their jobs? Thank you.

[Alexander Vronces]

I'm sorry.

Thank you for your invitation to appear. I look forward to answering any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That was a good pace at the end. As we get into questions, please adhere to the same thing.

We are on our questions now.

For the first round, we will have six minutes for each party to ask questions of the witnesses. We're starting with MP Williams for the first six minutes.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Once again, it's a pleasure to be part of the finance committee.

Alex, thank you for joining us here today. I'm happy to have you talk about the benefits of open banking. Could you tell us if Canada has provided a good timeline for when open banking will be implemented? As well, are you happy with the progress of the Government of Canada so far?

[Alexander Vronces]

It's no secret that the sector is disappointed and frustrated. There have been numerous delays. We've been really slow out the gate. Open banking, consumer-led banking or consumer-driven banking—whichever term you'd like to use—was first mentioned in the 2018 budget, I believe. Since then, we've really studied the question to death, while other countries have acted.

This many years into the process, we're just starting to see an open-banking framework come to fruition. In other jurisdictions, it took no more than a few years for the government to go from stating its intention to actually delivering and having a system up and running for their citizens to benefit from.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

We had FCAC here in the last round. They talked about being selected as a regulator. They've normally been tasked with handling consumer relations and now they need to handle business-to-business as well.

Are you confident that they can handle the task and be the regulator?

[Alexander Vronces]

Regardless of which regulator was picked, I think there would have been challenges. When it comes to business-to-business transactions, I think there are two issues that could emerge.

One is, can small business owners share the data that they should be in control of? I think the consumer-driven banking act, as it's outlined today, allows for that. Proposed section 3 makes it very clear that small businesses are supposed to be in scope. They're explicitly mentioned.

When it comes to policing disputes between businesses, however, the FCAC may be less equipped if the businesses we're talking about are banks and fintechs. One of the reasons why we need government intervention to implement an open banking framework is that the market hasn't been able to work it out itself. The market hasn't been able to get along. You can imagine a world where, going forward, there are disputes that arise between banks and fintechs.

I think our view is that we should keep our consumer protection watchdog in the financial sector as a consumer protection watchdog and not add to its mandate. For open banking to be successful, the job of the FCAC shouldn't be to protect fintechs from banks. It shouldn't be to protect banks from fintechs. It should be to protect and empower Canadians, first and foremost.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

I absolutely agree.

Would you support an amendment on data to ensure it includes small business in the terminology in terms of how we're talking about data and services, in that it should include small business as well and not just consumers?

[Alexander Vronces]

I'm not a professional drafter. When it comes to the text of legislation, I'll have to defer to others. In my read of the act, and in my conversations with department officials, it's been made clear to me that small business accounts are in scope. Small business accounts are explicitly referenced in proposed section 3 of the consumer-driven banking act, and in my conversations with department officials, they clarified that it's like this so that we can be clear, when the system launches, that it won't just be consumer accounts. Small business accounts will be in scope as well.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Something I asked FCAC was about the AMPs, the administrative monetary penalties. The maximum penalty is already listed up to $10 million, which is more than a lot of the revenue for some fintechs. I'm wondering if it's premature if we don't have the legislation in front of Parliament at this time to have the AMPs.

What are your feelings on some of those penalties?

[Alexander Vronces]

That's a great question. If I'm running a business and I see the AMPs, my heart might start beating quickly for just a second, but I say “just a second”, because I think that really the only businesses that should fear the AMPs right now are ones that are worried about their ability to handle the data of Canadians with care. I don't think our regulators have a history of administering monetary penalties willy-nilly. In fact, I've heard some arguments to the contrary. I've heard consumer groups say that our FCAC isn't aggressive enough.

Perhaps this isn't a popular thing to say, but the only really loud opposition I've heard about the AMPs in my conversations within the fintech scene is from companies that have already been on the receiving end of an FCAC penalty. Our members are comfortable with the AMPs as is because our members realize they're operating in a very special space—the financial sector—and they need Canadians' trust. Also, they have no doubt in their ability to comply with the framework that's coming.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

The CEBR has noted that the delay of payments and instant payments is causing a 2.7% lack of growth to GDP, which is $500 million a year.

When do we need all of this implemented? Do we need this tomorrow? When, really, do we want all of this implemented in order to benefit Canadians and, to your opening point, to boost productivity?

[Alexander Vronces]

Ideally, it would have been implemented a few years ago. I mean, when it comes to instant payments, the project has been delayed several times over the past decade.

The RTR was first announced in 2016. The original launch date was 2020 to 2021. It's been delayed several times since then, first to 2023 and now to 2026, and 2026 isn't even a launch date. It's just the year in which the industry will test its ability to use the RTR. We still don't have a launch date in sight for Canadians to benefit. We need this yesterday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, MP Williams.

Now we'll go to MP Sorbara, please, for six minutes.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

It's great to be here today. I apologize for not being there in person. I hope you can hear me clearly.

This morning, I had the pleasure of announcing an investment in my riding of Vaughan—Woodbridge for the City of Vaughan from the housing accelerator fund to build a bridge over Highway 400. It will link two subdivisions in the city of Vaughan.

It's great to see the housing accelerator fund and the investments that are flowing from that. The City of Vaughan received $59 million. Part of that $59 million—about $7.5 million—will go one-third, one-third and one-third with the city and the region to build this bridge, alleviate the traffic flow and accelerate the construction of new homes.

It's great to see those investments happening, because we know the official opposition party does not like the housing accelerator fund or investing in Canada and Canadians. We'll continue along that path.

I'll get to the matters at hand, because these are very important matters.

First, if I can, I'll go to the Physiotherapy Association. I very much enjoyed the remarks about the importance of prenatal care, etc. I'm the father of three daughters. Obviously, my wife and I used midwives in their births, and we know their services are so important.

I want to ask about the expansion of the student loan forgiveness program and how important that is to the Canadian Physiotherapy Association.

[Kayla Scott]

Thank you for your question.

We are delighted about the expansion of the Canada student loan forgiveness program to include physiotherapy professionals. At this time, there's a need for more physios in Canada. Currently, only 3% of physios practise in rural areas in Canada. This will ensure that Canadians have access to physiotherapy care and, to your point, prenatal care.

It will ensure that older persons have access to rehabilitative care. It will ensure that many Canadians who didn't have access to physiotherapy care can access it. This will revolutionize small communities. It will mean that students who may not have had access to education can access education to become a physiotherapy professional and serve their community. It will mean that those who had to travel far distances to access care can access it from a local provider.

This will mean enhanced care for Canadians. It will mean better care for future generations and current generations. This is a very proud moment for the profession and, most importantly, all Canadians seeking access to physiotherapy care.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I thank you very much for that wholesome answer. To be frank, if you're delighted, I'm delighted. It is great to hear the feedback on this policy measure, which we'll put in place through this piece of legislation, and that it will assist physiotherapists once everything passes.

The role of a physiotherapist, much like an occupational therapist or a speech-language pathologist—all of the therapists who are involved, in whichever setting they may be involved—is so important for our health care continuum. Their role is so essential, so I want to say “thank you” to you and your members for what you do to help Canadians day in and day out. Thank you very much.

Switching gears a bit, I'll move over to the individual from Fintechs Canada.

Sir, I'm someone who has been a long-time participant in the financial services sector in various roles, be they on Wall Street for a number of years or on Bay Street, and I'm someone who looks at open banking as a vast opportunity. If I can look at it from the consumer angle—and I think you may have touched upon this in your remarks—and look at ensuring the safety and security of data for consumers, how can we ensure that consumers feel secure with open banking, let's call it that, and consumer-driven banking?

As we take these steps and incrementally go forward, we need to make sure that it's secure. From your vantage point, how can we best do that?

[Alexander Vronces]

I think the best way to do that is by beginning the implementation of the work the government has been doing up until now.

The government's been consulting at length with the industry about all of the ways to manage all of the risks, including how to make sure that cybersecurity risks are managed; how to make sure that data is appropriately safeguarded; how to make sure that firms are required to be very transparent with their customers about what data they're accessing, for what reason and why; how to make it very easy for a consumer to revoke their consent if they don't want to share their data anymore; and how to allocate liability in the event something goes wrong so that consumers aren't waiting days and days, or weeks and weeks, to be made whole.

All of these questions have been asked and answered. They've been sent up to the minister in a giant book. It's been referred to colloquially as an open banking encyclopedia.

The way we do it is by implementing all of those measures, and we hope to see that in fall legislation.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you for that.

We know that here in Canada especially, if I can be narcissistic for one second, in the province of Ontario, my home province, whether it's in Waterloo or Toronto, we have an ecosystem that is continuing to build out. Is that not a fact?

We continue to attract top talent within the fintech sector here in the province of Ontario and, of course, in Canada.

[Alexander Vronces]

We certainly do. If that weren't true, I don't think we would have seen the Ontario government come out very publicly in support of open banking and instant money movement.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

That's correct. I know they have also come out for financial literacy.