Finance Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Ernie Daniels]

What we heard is that they want to have a first deal by the fall. That's really soon. We'll have to wait and see how that progresses. It's a really small window.

[Steve Berna]

Don, you should know that our board of directors, going forward and recognizing that reconciliation is economic reconciliation, did approve three weeks ago the Cedar LNG project, which is 50.1% owned by Haisla Nation, with $1.4 billion in scope over the four-and-a-half-year construction period.

We have gone ahead and approved that and have support from the capital markets to borrow on behalf of the first nation. We are now hoping that we can work with the details of the loan guarantee program so that when it comes into effect, it can come in and protect it after our board has already made a decision to finance it.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I see.

Now, my understanding is that the rules, requirements and regulations are still being developed, but from what I understand, it appears that any one of the chartered banks could apply for the loan guarantee program, in addition to indigenous-led organizations like yours.

In your view, does the ILG program represent truly a by-indigenous, -for-indigenous approach to economic reconciliation if we allow chartered banks, for example, to participate in addition to indigenous-led finance organizations?

[Ernie Daniels]

That's a really good question.

We know how commercial banks operate. They're in it to make a profit for their shareholders, and the loan guarantee program is virtually risk free for them. I don't know how much they will be able to sharpen their pencils to give the nations a break, considering that they do have to make money themselves, but organizations like us are not for profit, and our membership is made up of first nations. All of our savings, the profit that we would make, literally goes back to the first nations, and we provide them with lower interest rates so that they get a better rate of return and can do more things in their community with that.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

[Steve Berna]

Don, it's really key to note that the regulation change we're asking for allows inclusion of all first nations, because if they have to go through the vetting process under our act and they do not have the internal capacity to pass that vetting process, they must turn to the banks.

Our rates start at 4.25% and bank rates start at 7.2%. A loan guarantee may bring theirs down a bit, but it's not going to bring it down to our level. That means that you're going to have those lower-capacity first nations—it may be for lack of budgetary funding, because they're remote or they can't hire staff—that will not benefit the same way that other first nations benefit. We're trying to level the playing field and make economic inclusion equal to all.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

I just want to squeeze in a question to Unifor, if I could.

Can you elaborate on Unifor's concerns about the lack of recapitalization of the strategic innovation fund in budget 2024?

[Angelo DiCaro]

I look to my colleague Kaylie to see if she wants to say a bit about this.

[Kaylie Tiessen]

We find that the strategic innovation fund is a very important program that supports the research and development phases of all sorts of new technologies that then become commercialized in Canada. You can think about the auto industry, the aerospace industry as well as others.

The fact that it has not been recapitalized means that employers we work with are not clear on whether the money will continue to be available over time to do the research and development work that is necessary to continue to invest in new technologies, which will then continue to grow the economy and the footprint of particular industries that then, of course, go to creating those good unionized jobs that our members rely on.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Can you outline the approach that Unifor is pushing the federal government to implement about the disclosure by telecommunications companies on outsourcing work?

[Kaylie Tiessen]

Angelo, I don't have a clear answer to that one. Do you?

[Angelo DiCaro]

We didn't address this in our remarks, but I know the issue you're talking about. We're happy to follow up with the committee if an answer is required. We have no problem doing that.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

To the First Nations Finance Authority, my last question is this: What about projects that don't just involve first nations but also might include Métis or Inuit communities? Do you have any advice on that?

[Ernie Daniels]

Well, we would like to be able to work with these groups, and I think that's probably down the road a bit. The best advice I can give those groups is to just continue lobbying parliamentarians to be included in our act, but these are the groups that are probably going to have to work with the chartered banks for the time being, until we can actually work with them.

Our act is just a bit too restrictive right now. We need to open it up, because it's a really powerful tool first nations have that other indigenous groups should enjoy. Access to the capital markets really does help, but the rates that we can get would really help those communities as well.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you for the work you do and for your testimony today. It is very helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Davies. I concur.

Thank you very much to our witnesses, our final panel today—our 12th panel of witnesses—and all those who came before you, the many witnesses who provided testimony on Bill C-69.

From here our committee will move to clause-by-clause consideration to get Bill C-69 through and back to the House. We thank you and wish you the best for the rest of your day.

On that, members, we are adjourned.