Finance Committee on June 4th, 2024

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I wanted to clarify something with regard to what Ms. Kwan said. When we do get to division 39, where I think some of the amendments that the NDP will propose apply, in terms of the number of clauses that relate to that division, we'll be working on the ones that are unamended first. We're hoping to have her support on those because, otherwise, as she said, the amendments she's proposing might not apply because the division will not hang together.

I wanted to put that out there because it is a different process from what perhaps some other committees do. With her not having been involved in all the conversations with Mr. Davies, I wanted to make Ms. Kwan aware of that so she's 100% clear.

I hope that's helpful, and it was brought forward with the intention of being helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, PS Turnbull.

That was for MP Kwan, if you didn't capture that.

We'll suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're back and we're glad that MP Ste-Marie is in his constituency office. He's safe, secure and the system is working well. That's all good and we're glad.

I have some hands up before we go to where we were.

We have MP Ste-Marie and then PS Turnbull.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank you and the members of the committee for your indulgence. I'm really sorry, but the laptop I use starts to overheat when I participate, by video conference, in a meeting lasting more than two hours. I had to restart my device, but the Zoom app that I use to join you didn't work properly. I nevertheless managed to connect from another computer, and everything seems to be working now.

In the meantime, I understand that Mr. Turnbull, the parliamentary secretary, has negotiated with my colleague Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, our immigration critic.

Mr. Chair, I want to inform you that the Bloc Québécois will vote for clauses 433 to 441, knowing that the NDP's amendments relating to them will be adopted. That's the Bloc Québécois' position.

Once again, I apologize to all committee members and senior officials.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

The clauses you were speaking to are the ones with amendments. We'll get to those after we get through the clauses that did not have amendments.

Thank you, MP Ste-Marie for that.

PS Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

My understanding is that some of the clauses in division 38 have been struck from the bill, based on the committee members' votes before the suspension.

I understand that committee members have voted that way. It's all good for us, but I would just ask for unanimous consent to remove and withdraw division 38 entirely from the bill, as all committee members that I've spoken with, as far as I understand, are for removing that.

We on the government side don't want only a piece of division 38 in there, so we'd ask for unanimous consent to withdraw all of division 38.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

It doesn't make sense to have one clause floating in space, so Conservatives are agreeable to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I see the Bloc is agreeable also, and the NDP...?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm sorry. I just have a procedural question.

What's the difference between withdrawing a section or simply defeating it? We've already defeated part of it.

Is there any practical or procedural implication for doing it either way?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's a good question.

MP Davies is asking about the withdrawing or the defeating of a section.

The legislative clerk is going to explain what was just asked for and procedurally how to do what is being requested by PS Turnbull, with unanimous consent from the members.

We're going to suspend for a couple of minutes so they can put everything in order and inform the members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Members, unanimous consent was agreed on to rescind division 38, and that is from clause 385 to 432. In doing this we rescind those that were already voted on and we would now defeat all clauses from 385 to 432. That would rescind division 38. Is that clear with all members?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I just want to be clear that I misspoke earlier and didn't say that there were pieces of division 38 that were actually voted through and adopted, and there were pieces that weren't adopted. The whole reason for wanting to remove the whole division is to remove those pieces that we adopted as well, because it's a whole division and it's all about improvements to the processing for asylum seekers in Canada. We would just prefer to have the whole thing gone rather than have a piecemeal version that's not going to make sense.

Thanks.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I have a question of procedure. If a committee votes down a section of a bill can those sections be reintroduced in another bill later?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Chambers, it can be done at report stage.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Just on that, we're rescinding our actions, but we're defeating them en masse. The government is not withdrawing those sections. We're withdrawing the votes that happened as if they never happened, and then we're just defeating that whole section. Is that the intent?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Yes.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

We're defeating it. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You're defeating. Everybody is defeating. The only way to get rid of that division 38 is to defeat it all, and that would be from clause 385 to 432.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

It has to be UC because we're going back in history.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Is there unanimous consent to go back to clauses 385 to 432?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

(Clauses 385 to 432 inclusive negatived)

Members, now the grouping we are at is clauses 433 to 437 and clauses 439 and 440.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I would request a recorded vote on the missing sections because my instructions are to vote against those.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We are having a recorded vote on the grouping, members, of 433 to 437, 439 and 440.

(Clauses 433 to 437, 439 and 440 agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)

Members, now we are going to start on the clauses with amendments. We will go back to the clauses with amendments that have been submitted. The first one is 38 and it's CPC-1.

(On clause 38)

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Yes, I so move.