Evidence of meeting #157 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was caregivers.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
The argument I've been making is that, because we are in this unique situation, we're right next door to the largest, most powerful.... I don't have to repeat all that. It is seen as the risk-free rate of return in the sense that it's the one country in the world where wealthy people want to go because they're not worried about being expropriated by their own government: Russia, China and so forth.
I teach this to the students. I use capital investment, foreign investment flows, as a proxy for attractiveness of the country. When more investment is flowing out of the country than into the country, investors are voting with their feet. They're saying, you're not as good as alternatives. Right now, I believe investors are saying they do not see Canada.... It's not that we're a bad country. It's just that there are better alternatives in the United States.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
The Library of Parliament has put out—I got this right from their website—that there is an almost $500-billion imbalance in investment between Canada and the United States. Investment used to flow into Canada positively, and now it's flowing negatively into the United States.
This $500-billion differential in investment, could you explain what that means in terms of lost jobs, lost investment opportunity, lost quality of life, lost ability of policy-makers or governments to deliver public services?
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
I'm going to quote again, and forgive me, because I read huge amounts and I have guests speakers coming in. I had Philip Cross out—a very senior statistician for 35 years—to my class on this very question of investment. He said, if you want to know how the economy is going to be doing in about three years from now, look at aggregate private capital investment today, because that's the investment in the factories, the equipment and the technologies that are going to produce the jobs, but there's a lag from the time you start the investment to the time you build it and you get it up and running.
It's a very useful metric for MPs to say, let's look at aggregate private capital investment today, and we'll have a pretty good idea how the economy is going to be doing in about three years with a lag of three years.
When you have a deficit and the investment is going down, as it's doing, this a very bad sign because it means we're building fewer businesses with less investment in the future. In fact, all of the studies on productivity are showing that we're massively underinvesting on worker trainer, R and D, and capex in our businesses, relative to the U.S. There's no mystery to the productivity crisis.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
This means Canada is not getting investment in tools, in technology, in IT systems, in the kinds of things that workers need in order to make them more productive, in order to earn larger paycheques, have better-paying jobs, pay more taxes, receive more public services. Is that...?
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
Exactly. That's what Robert Asselin was arguing, too. He said that this feeds back into the social programs because we need the cash flow. We need the revenues from taxation to fund the social programs.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
It's fair to say that all of the other budget asks that we're hearing at this committee really depend on addressing the very issue that you have raised here, that in Canada, taxes, subsidies, regulations, money printing, all of these things you announced in—
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
Absolutely.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
—your first sentence are imperilling the ability to maintain public services.
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
It's absolutely essential that we create a positive investment climate that encourages businesses and investors to invest here, especially when we're right next door. If we were halfway around the world, it might not be as much of a problem, but we're right next door to this giant machine.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
I think you have just enough time to get in another point here. It's not just the United States, though. It's Canada compared with peer countries other than the United States. Could you just finish with that?
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
It's compared with the OECD. It really struck me when I saw that one. I knew that we were always on the short end of the stick compared with the United States, but the OECD is out-competing. They're getting a lot more capital per worker than we are. The OECD countries are high-taxation, high-regulation countries, so it's astonishing that we're getting beaten by the OECD. That's a very bad sign.
Liberal
Liberal
Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL
Thank you.
Welcome to the witnesses.
Mr. Janeiro, I would like to start with you. It's interesting. In your opening comments, you referenced that one in four Canadians today are involved in some type of caregiving. You project that it will be one in two as we move into the future. Of course, half of them are women. I certainly have lived that, as I think many other women have, obviously. While it's a real privilege, it's also very challenging. Thank you for highlighting that.
Our government is in the process of developing a national caregiving strategy to further support caregivers who care for children, aging parents, grandparents or adults who live with disabilities or any other long-term condition. Could you share with the committee your recommendations on how the national caregiving strategy would support women as caregivers and care providers?
Director, Policy and Government Relations, Canadian Centre for Caregiving Excellence
Thank you very much for the question. I'm very happy to address that.
We have a few recommendations on this front that are specifically focused on the fact that the majority of care in Canada is, in fact, as you say, delivered by women. That has long-term consequences, particularly on the earnings side and on the retirement security side as well.
I'll put forward two recommendations to you right now. The first is around CPP fairness. It's often women who take a lot of time out of the labour market to provide care for somebody in their lives—a child with a disability, an aging parent, a sibling with a mental health challenge or something like that. When you take five, seven or 10 years out of the labour market, that's five, seven or 10 years you're not contributing to CPP. That means when you retire, your CPP earnings are that much lower than they otherwise would have been if you'd been working and hadn't had these care responsibilities.
Our position is that you're doing all of us, collectively, a net good, and doing all Canadians a net good, by supporting the people you love to do as well as they can. We need to support you in that. One idea we're putting forward for consideration in the national caregiving strategy is that the math underlying CPP be adjusted. If you take time out of the labour market to be a caregiver, those years should sort of be factored out the way they are now for a couple of years of child care in the early stages of life. Grow that number so that you can factor out more years and not be punished when you retire. Your CPP earnings are as if you had been working your average wage for that full time that you had been out of the market for the purpose of caregiving.
On the care provider front—personal support workers and direct support professionals—north of 70% are women and are largely newcomers. They're not entirely newcomers, but there are a lot of newcomers in that population. There's a standing commitment to a $25-an-hour minimum wage for personal support workers. That goes back a couple of years. Our suggestion is, let's do that. Let's start with that. Let's also extend that to the other players in the care economy who provide this kind of work and these kinds of services for vulnerable people.
Those are just two areas, with many more available to you.
Liberal
Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL
Those are two very important areas. Thank you for sharing that.
I think we have time for another question, so I want to switch to the Green Budget Coalition.
Mr. Van Iterson, the Canadian Climate Institute estimates that Canadian emissions would be 41% higher by 2030 without government measures. This is equivalent to taking 69 million cars off the roads by the government. Of course, as someone who's very concerned about climate and the need to meet our targets, I think this is a very positive result. We do have a very comprehensive plan in place to further fight climate change, but not every party has a public plan on climate action.
Do you believe Canadians deserve to know each political party's strategy to address climate change?
Will Bulmer Lead Specialist, Government Relations, World Wildlife Fund-Canada (WWF-Canada), Green Budget Coalition
Thank you so much for your question.
The Green Budget Coalition advances its recommendations on an annual basis, as the issues of climate change and biodiversity loss are universal and not beholden to any election cycle. We're here today to recognize that it's a fine balance between spending within your means and taking necessary actions. What's not up for debate is that nature is our strongest asset to address a changing climate. It also provides for Canadians, whether it is our economy or our communities and families. Those aspects are not up for debate.
While we encourage all political parties to prioritize these crises, we remain non-partisan in the fact that these are challenges that we will be facing regardless and that all Canadians will have to deal with at some point.
Liberal
Joanne Thompson Liberal St. John's East, NL
Thank you.
As somebody from the east coast of Canada, I celebrate the potential of the green economy, and I am so pleased that Bill C-49 has passed and that we can start to get to work.
I'm going to quickly use the time I have left to speak to you, Ms. Paleczny. Thank you for your comments and the work you're doing in urban transit.
I come from the east coast, from Newfoundland and Labrador. We haven't had a train for 75 years. It's a big province, and yes, we rely on buses. I want to focus on urban transit and the link to housing, how part of the housing strategy is the need to ensure that transit is available to people, especially in affordable rental spaces.
Can you speak to the very real link between housing, meeting housing needs for all Canadians, and public transit? Also, can you speak to how important it is to align public transit with the realities of public transit in the region in Canada we're speaking of?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, MP Thompson.
Ms. Paleczny, I just need a quick answer on this. Maybe you can expand in the later round.
Chair, Canadian Urban Transit Association
Sure. Thank you.
Transit is certainly a key component of that. We know that when people are choosing where to live and are deciding...are making their transportation choices, transit has to be a viable option at that time. If it's not, they're forced to make other decisions. Once somebody has made the decision to purchase a car, it's is very difficult, then, to attract them back to transit. It certainly is very critical.
As I touched on in my comments, transit systems today are struggling to meet that demand. As housing continues to grow, we need to make sure that the systems are in place to accommodate those demands.
Liberal
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I want to say hello to all the witnesses. Thank you for your presentations and the briefs you sent us. That will be very helpful as we write our recommendations. I do not know whether there will be an economic update this fall or a budget next spring, or whether promises of funding will be used in the various election platforms. The fact remains that you are raising very important points of view that deserve to be supported.
Since time is limited, my questions will be for Mr. Roy today.
Before I get into my questions, though, I want to mention something briefly. As you saw, I tabled a notice of motion asking CMHC to provide us with updated data for our study on government policy decisions and market forces that have led to increases in the cost of buying or renting a home in Canada. I will not move the motion today, but I will do so next Thursday if we still have not received the required data.
In September 2023, CMHC officials testified before the committee. We asked them for those documents, and they agreed. Since then, on multiple occasions, the clerk has followed up with CMHC, but they keep saying that it is to be provided soon. The request was made over a year ago. I want to thank Ms. Bendayan for following up with the Department of Finance about that. I think CMHC was told that we needed to have the data. If we do not have that on Thursday, I will move the motion to that effect.
That is what I wanted to mention. I will now put my questions to Mr. Roy.
Thank you very much for being here, Mr. Roy. We are talking about major festivals and events. The pandemic occurred, and it was a difficult time. Since then, there has been inflation, which has hit your sector particularly hard. Can you give us any information on that?
Executive Director, Festivals and Major Events Canada
Thank you for the question.
I do think that we first have to go back to the pandemic and see that it had extremely negative consequences for our sector. We were unable to operate for a few years, and we experienced a partial dismantling of the sector. People who had skilled trades decided to go and do something else with their lives. Those who stayed on subsequently had the opportunity to increase their fees, however. It is the same thing for suppliers. In fact, this is a problem that has become quite widespread in the cultural sector.
In addition, following the pandemic, inflation has indeed hit our sector very hard. We estimate that it costs 30% to 40% more to run a festival today in comparison to 2019—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
I'm sorry for the interruption. Monsieur Roy, could you just move away from the mic a bit? It affects the interpretation.
Thank you.