Finance Committee on Oct. 24th, 2024

[Dr. Matthew McKean, Chief Officer, Research and Development, Business-Higher Education Roundtable]

As Val mentioned in her opening remarks, we talked to small and medium-sized business owners before we started this journey. We talked to hundreds of them, about 500 or 600. We went sector by sector, region by region, and asked them what they needed to do more work-integrated learning or what they needed to do it if they weren't already doing it.

More often than not, as Val said, paying the student was not the barrier. It was building that HR capacity to create the experiences, figuring out the intricacies of how to mentor students, providing quality assessment or creating programs where they just didn't exist by partnering with that local post-secondary institution.

That's the capacity-building and partnership function that we offer and that we see as being critical to the ecosystem.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

This is great.

I can really relate to this. I don't know what age group you target, but man, I went to school, I worked hard and I had good grades. I had good grades in university, and then I got out of university and I couldn't find a job. I struggled, and I know many others do. I speak to many constituents—

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

That's right. Then I became an MP.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

There's hope for me after all, I suppose. Yes, it is precarious work.

I can really relate to the need. I speak with a lot of constituents who come to me, frankly, and ask me if I can help their son or daughter find a job that's appropriate.

I only have a minute left. For folks at home, can you talk in about 45 seconds or less about how much funding you've received from the federal government, how many placements that's created and the impact it's had?

[Dr. Valerie Walker]

I can.

To date we have received a total of just shy of $17 million. We have leveraged that funding from the federal government with private sector employer cash—and in kind as well, but cash for the salaries—to about $270 million. On top of that, we have close to a couple of million dollars in just the last two years that our delivery partners provide in kind. It is a very good, clear return on investment with that funding.

With that money, as I said in my opening remarks, we have created more than 65,000 opportunities for students across the country with close to 10,000 companies that now understand and have that capacity to do more in future years.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Baker.

We'll go to MP Ste-Marie now.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to begin by thanking all the witnesses for being here.

The testimony from the witnesses was really rich in content. We're taking a lot of notes, since our speaking time is very limited.

My questions are for Ms. Baig, from the École de technologie supérieure.

Ms. Baig, you mentioned that the AdapT Institute already has 60 projects under way.

Can you give us a few examples of projects and activities to help us get a sense of what the institute is doing in concrete terms?

[Kathy Baig]

Thank you very much for the question.

We are more than happy to provide examples.

Since we are fortunate to have the institute's director with us, I would invite Éric Bosco to answer that question by providing concrete examples.

[Éric Bosco, Executive Director, Institut AdapT, École de technologie supérieure]

Thank you very much for the question.

As mentioned, we have over 60 projects under way. I would first like to say that about half of these projects were launched with the support of the federal government and Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC. I'm very pleased to see that the federal government is taking seriously the issue of climate change adaptation in its own real estate portfolio, if I can put it that way.

I'll give you a few examples of what we're doing with the support of PSPC. We are currently involved in the project to restore and modernize the parliamentary precinct, where we are today.

For us, it's a great project. On the one hand, it's an iconic location—we're talking about the Parliament of Canada—and on the other hand, this place is like a small town. So it contains all the challenges related to adapting to climate change. We're talking about resilience in the event of the front lawn of Parliament Hill flooding, for example. I'm also thinking of problems caused by coastal erosion, which is produced by the river behind the site. I can also bring up heat islands, heat comfort issues and the experience of visitors and parliamentary employees. There are also challenges related to the freezing and thawing of masonry. Freeze and thaw cycles are much more frequent than they used to be, which causes a lot of problems for masonry.

This is a very good project, with very long-term timelines and in collaboration with PSPC. We have several examples of collaboration with PSPC when it comes to buildings or infrastructure. However, the people from PSPC also told us about half a dozen projects proposed by companies that are starting new products. These companies would like the federal government to become their first customer in order to demonstrate the viability of their products. The problem that the PSPC people explained to us is that they are not able to really define the characteristics of the products and determine whether they can be adequate.

One of the projects in question is about evaluating a green insulation foam that is made from forest industry residues. This new insulation product is very interesting, and it is environmentally friendly. It is made from materials that would normally have been devalued. In addition, our forestry industry is important here in Canada. PSPC is very interested. For us, it's about providing expertise, characterizing the product, testing it over the long term and demonstrating the advantages and disadvantages compared with traditional products. It's super interesting and, if it works well, the company will have its first customer, the federal government. In addition, it would obtain a kind of scientific confirmation from us as to the quality of the product.

Here's another example, which concerns a municipality. You probably know that municipalities are on the front line when it comes to climate change. They are really the ones who have to deal with the problems associated with it on a daily basis. However, they are often very ill-equipped to respond. One of our projects is being carried out with the rural community of Sainte-Marthe. When there is heavy rain, which happens frequently these days, that city's filtration system receives a mixture of groundwater and large volumes of surface water, obviously contaminated. The city is having trouble filtering that water, and the quality of the water coming out of the system is not guaranteed. In this case, our job is to better predict the mixture of water and optimize the system to guarantee the quality of the water leaving it at all times.

I will also tell you about the measures we are taking. I was just talking about municipalities. We held an event on October 3 with the Union des municipalités du Québec, or UMQ. There were 130 participants. Groups bringing together mayors from various regions first told us about their reality on the ground. Afterwards, workshops were created. They consisted of representatives of private companies, researchers from various universities and, of course, municipalities. They talked about the various issues they were facing. Then researchers expressed interest in solving those problems, and companies came forward to offer their products and services. It was a very productive day, and we are in the process of following up and starting projects.

It was a great experience, where we were really proactive. That day, we also announced a research chair with half a million dollars in funding, in collaboration with the UMQ, specifically on adapting municipalities to climate change. The event really got a lot of attention. A number of municipalities and researchers have contacted us, and we expect some great projects to be proposed.

Funding in the amount of more than $200,000 was also announced to get these projects off the ground.

That gives you a bit of an idea of the nature of our activities.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

It's very impressive. Thank you.

I'll ask you a second question. If the chair, in his intransigence, were to cut you off, you could complete your answer during my next turns to speak.

As far as the AdapT Institute is concerned, this one-stop-shop model already receives funding from the Quebec government. It's operational at the provincial level. You gave some examples of that.

How could such a model actually help local communities, especially remote regions across the country, meet the challenges posed by climate change and strengthen their infrastructure with federal funding?

[Éric Bosco]

Thank you very much for—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

What I'm going to ask, because we are well over time already—

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I knew it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

—is to take that into account. Put your answer together, and then, when we have more time in the next round, you'll have an opportunity to answer. Okay?

Thank you, MP Ste-Marie. We go to MP Davies now.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for fascinating testimony on a wide variety of subjects.

Mr. Hume, if I can begin with you, in September the federal government announced it will increase the cap on insured mortgages to $1.5 million from $1 million, effective December 15. In addition, purchasers will be able to take out loans for a 30-year period if they are first-time homebuyers or if they're buying a newly built house.

In your view, what impact will these measures have on housing prices?

[Nathan Hume]

I think the evidence from the last 30 years is very clear that when the federal government takes those steps—increases amortization periods at the CMHC and increases mortgage insurance limits—prices go up and prices stay up. They act as anchors. They set people's expectations, and people across the country and from elsewhere invest accordingly.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

It's a bit of a conundrum, isn't it? When we make it easier for first-time buyers to buy a house, we increase demand.

If we have a supply issue, it would seem that the basic laws of supply and demand would mean that we have more people chasing less stock, thereby driving prices up. Do I have that right?

[Nathan Hume]

Yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

On October 10, the federal government announced that it will reform mortgage insurance rules to allow refinancing to help cover the cost of building secondary suites, starting in January.

I think you commented on that in your opening remarks. In your view, what impact will that measure have on housing supply in Canada?

[Nathan Hume]

I think it will have a limited impact on housing supply.

I remember the announcement in which the minister spoke of grandparents building secondary suites for their grandchildren to attend university. Although that's a nice thought, I do not think that this is going to have a meaningful impact on the number of homes available for families to raise children and for long-term solutions.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Maybe turning to some solutions that might work, you have a fascinating proposal for a housing ETF. I'd like to direct some questions to that.

Are there currently any regulatory barriers to establishing a housing ETF in Canada?

[Nathan Hume]

Not that I'm aware of, no. This is a plug-and-play solution. We have ETFs for almost anything you can imagine, but not houses. I do not have an answer for why that's the case right now.