Evidence of meeting #21 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A video is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
In the Department of Justice's view, could regular legislation have been used to determine that the siege in Ottawa was a criminal activity?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Safety, Defence and Immigration Portfolio, Department of Justice
I'm sure that there were some aspects in the legislation. However, when the declaration was made, the government looked at the situation at hand and took the necessary steps to end it.
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
I'll ask my question differently.
Before February 15, the siege in Ottawa couldn't be viewed as an illegal activity. Is that right?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Safety, Defence and Immigration Portfolio, Department of Justice
The measures needed to end the siege hadn't been taken. That's why it was considered necessary to implement the emergency measures.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Yes, but I sense an attempt to dodge the question.
Under our system of regular legislation, could the siege in Ottawa be viewed as illegal and criminal activity, yes or no?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Safety, Defence and Immigration Portfolio, Department of Justice
There were definitely some criminal aspects involved.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you.
Your time is up, MP Ste-Marie.
We will now move to the NDP, and MP Blaikie, for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you.
We know that a number of donor names were revealed, due to an anonymous hack, and posted online. Would that be sufficient, under the order, for financial institutions, if they received that information, or if staff of a financial institution saw those names leaked?
Would that be sufficient, under the order, to create a duty for them to freeze accounts or not? I guess that is the question.
Would they have to consult law enforcement, first, in order to get an adequate determination as to whether or not people were actively supporting the convoy, beyond the content of the hack?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I must admit that I'm not aware of the release of the hack that you're referring to.
What I can tell you is that financial institutions were very concerned about ensuring that they took the proper steps to satisfy themselves that the people, if they took the decision to freeze their accounts, would be designated persons involved in illegal activities.
Just on the face of the names themselves, I would doubt they would take action, but I cannot speak for them. I think they would need to satisfy themselves. Again, I'm sure they would consult their legal team to ensure they meet the requirements of the order prior to taking action.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Has there been any direction or counsel given by the government to financial institutions as to what kind of information they can or should retain, whether they should destroy information, or how they should treat people on a go-forward basis after the resolution of the emergency that precipitated the use of the act?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I've not had such discussions. The information I was provided pursuant to the order was prescribed by the order. Information was shared, maybe, between law enforcement and the financial entities, and I'm sure they will advise in accordance with laws that are in place with respect to retention of any information they may have.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Can I get your opinion as to whether it's possible and whether it's advisable for government to issue any such direction? That includes whether there would be some legislative action required to give a clear expectation to financial institutions as to how they should treat the information they may have received from law enforcement or elsewhere, and what they should do with information on people's files, so that it would not affect people's personal financial business on a go-forward basis.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
It's a question I would like to take back and consult with our Department of Justice [Technical difficulty—Editor].
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Once you've done that, could you then give the committee a response to that question in writing, please?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Yes, I can consider the question and see what response we can provide.
Liberal
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Mr. Chair, I think MP Stewart is having some technical difficulties, so we'll do a bit of tag teaming here.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I fully recognize that we're in unprecedented times. Those are very overused words, but as it's the first time we're working through this legislation, it would be very helpful for the committee, as we're discussing or contemplating any recommendations or future uses of [Technical difficulty—Editor], either a process map or flow chart at a very high level that outlines the flow of information between the RCMP or other sources of information before it gets to a financial institution. That way, we can understand who touches certain information, where it ends up and where decisions are being made.
We've had some great information today from our officials about the banks making these determinations based on some information provided by the RCMP, but if this was documented in written form, it would certainly help us—or help me as a member of the committee and, I hope, others—as we consider any recommendations about the process, going forward.
Is that something we could ask of our officials?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
In the sharing of information by the RCMP with the financial institutions, they would be best placed to map this out, but we can certainly consult.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
That would be fine.
To the best of your knowledge, how does, at a high level.... When something gets flagged, it moves over. How does it go through the process and end up with a financial institution?
I hope we'll have opportunities, and I suspect we we will, to hear from the financial institutions about their own internal processes, but with respect to the government that would be very helpful.