Finance Committee on March 7th, 2022

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thanks for that clarification. That's very helpful.

In one of her speeches, our Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance said that this was about following the money and about stopping the financing of the illegal blockades. They were serving notice: If their bank was being used in these protests, their corporate accounts would be frozen.

You may not be able to answer this question. When the RCMP provided information to the banks, did they actually say to you that it was because this was a corporate trucking company? Did did they give you the reasons? Or did they just give you the information and it was your job just to follow through once you validated things on your end?

[Angelina Mason]

They gave a high-level description of what they thought the activities were.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

When I go through the four things that are under the emergency economic measures order, the third states that the government directs “Canadian financial institutions to review their relationships with anyone involved in the illegal blockades and report the assets and related transactions...to the RCMP or CSIS”. When you said that part of what you did under this act was to do a review for suspicious activity, would that be encapsulated into that third thing, or did you actually do more?

[Angelina Mason]

No. That was it. What I was trying to distinguish was that when you're given a list of specific names, then you would look at the activities of those specific names. When you're not relying on that but relying on your normal risk-based approach, then it's only that which is the threshold of unusual that catches your eye. Then you look at it in that context.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Okay. Perfect.

This was number four:

Fourth, the order provides federal, provincial, and territorial government institutions with new authority to share relevant information with banks and other financial services providers, if the information will help put a stop to the funding of illegal blockades and illegal activities.

Other than the RCMP, were there any other institutions that provided more information to banks that allowed you to do the freezing of accounts or that led to more enforcement under the Emergencies Act?

[Angelina Mason]

I am not aware of that occurring but can check and come back.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

We heard stories that individual bank accounts were frozen for just donating or purchasing merchandise associated with the blockade. The RCMP put out a statement that read: “At no time, did [they] provide a list of donors to Financial Institutions.”

Can you clarify when these measures were implemented and whether or not any of your members applied them retroactively?

[Angelina Mason]

Members did not apply them retroactively. The order came into force February 15 and expired February 23. There's been a fair bit of misinformation out there, and I would just ask that when stories like that come up they actually be validated, because, as I said, they would be inconsistent with how our practices are applied.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

And—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you—

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Okay. Am I done?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Yes, that's your time.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much, Ms. Mason.

[Angelina Mason]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Dzerowicz.

We are moving to the Bloc and MP Ste-Marie for two and a half minutes, please.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Our role as parliamentarians is to assess whether the government absolutely needed the Emergencies Act to intervene. It is a law of last resort. Regular legislation covered by the Criminal Code, such as the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act, prohibit financial fraud, laundering of ill-gotten gains or financing of criminal activities.

I would like to ask you two questions.

To your knowledge, did the members of your association freeze accounts under regular legislation, such as the act I just named, or did they do it under the Emergencies Act?

How did the Emergencies Act enable members of your association to intervene in a way that regular legislation could not, even if it had been more rigorously applied?

[Angelina Mason]

I'm happy to answer that question.

Again, in the cases of the orders, the court orders, again, were legal requirements, and those were based on court proceedings.

In the case of the Emergencies Act, there was a legal obligation to freeze, which otherwise would not be there.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Normally, when banks suspect someone of financing criminal activities, they freeze their accounts. Is that correct?

[Angelina Mason]

It depends on the particular back circumstances of whether it's something that you report versus...and then, you would, for example, report to the RCMP and they perhaps would then get production orders and take it from there, so it is not your typical situation.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

What you're saying is that it's not a regular occurrence for banks to freeze an account when they suspect financing of criminal activities.

[Angelina Mason]

Right. There is discretion on how you handle it. You can let the RCMP know, and then they would take the particular measures. In this case, it was a legal obligation to freeze. There was no discretion on how a bank could act.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

All right.

I will ask more questions later.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Ste-Marie.

We are moving to the NDP and MP Blaikie for two and a half minutes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you again, Ms. Mason.

You said in your earlier comments that the government didn't address the question of notification, and how to notify folks that their accounts had been frozen and under what authority they had been frozen.

In other cases, under other laws where accounts are frozen, is it typical that a court order would address the question of notification?

[Angelina Mason]

Quite often, they don't, so again, the members are in a position to apply their usual processes. For example, if someone hasn't paid child support and they get their account seized, a member may decide they don't need to be notified of that—they know they haven't paid child support for many years. It's a question of what the particular approach is, whereas others may choose a different approach.