Finance Committee on March 31st, 2022

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Would I be accurate in saying that this perhaps points to a more systemic issue?

I'm sorry. Is my time over?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's your time.

I know it's hard sometimes, because we speak over each other. As Mr. Albas said, the allotted time is not a lot of time.

Now we're moving to the Liberals, with Ms. Dzerowicz up for four minutes.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Just in case I reach the end of my allotted time very early, I want to indicate that I put on notice a motion for a possible future study. Who knows if we're going to be able to get to any of these, but it's good to have these on future notice. Mine is about strengthening the internal economy at a time when we have such an increasingly unpredictable global economic outlook exacerbated by the geopolitical crisis. A number of witnesses who have come before the finance committee over the last couple of years have indicated that if we focus on strengthening our internal economy, harmonizing our regulations and eliminating barriers that stop the free movement of people, goods and services, then we would actually have far more productive economic growth in Canada. I just want to say that is a notice of motion. Thanks so much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Dzerowicz. Has that been sent to the clerk and distributed?

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Yes, it has been, and it has already been distributed. See how efficient our clerk is.

I actually want to go back to a question that Ms. Chatel asked earlier about telephone prices. We received a wonderful response from Mr. Peterson, which was great.

Here's my thing: There's a disconnect for me. One of the letters I receive most often in my riding is about how expensive telephone services continue to be and how uncompetitive we are. We're probably, if not the most expensive in the world in terms of telephone and cellular prices, among the top. How does that square with what you are reporting through your data? I understand what you've indicated, that more services have been provided for the same price, but there is a disconnect between that and what I'm hearing from the general public.

[Greg Peterson]

I think that's a fair observation.

When we produce the consumer price index, we're after the measurement of the same basket of goods over a period of time. When you look at telecommunication service, you look at a package that has so much data, so much voice, so much time and so many characteristics [Technical difficulty—Editor] time.

For sure, when I open my telecommunications bill, I'm not opening it and saying, “Wow, this is great. I'm paying less.” There's a difference between what households are spending on things and what the price change is and what the CPI does.

The CPI is really that quality-controlled basket of goods that we compare over a period. That is not to say that Canadians aren't hurting. They're paying a lot, not just for telecommunications services but also for housing, as well as for food and a range of other commodities.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

I really appreciate that, and I know people in my riding will appreciate hearing and understanding that response.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Dzerowicz.

I will move to the Bloc and Mr. Ste-Marie, for four minutes.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll begin with a brief comment.

Mr. Peterson, obviously I appreciated my colleague's joke about how many resources would be mobilized to answer the committee's questions. However, on a more serious note, I would still like to reiterate the importance of recognizing all the work you do. For a healthy democracy, it's important for the government to have answers to its questions, but also for all legislators. For that, I tip my hat and thank you.

In this final round, I would like to ask you about the evolution of wages in relation to inflation. We're seeing higher than normal inflation, historical inflation. Does the wage level keep up with that inflation? How does it fluctuate?

Is it fair to say that, on average, workers will become poorer as a result of this inflation, or have they been able to negotiate wage increases to offset this inflation?

[Greg Peterson]

That is something we're keeping an eye on. At this point, we haven't seen wage rates increase as fast as inflation. In essence, this is affecting the paycheques of Canadians.

This is something that we keep an eye on through the labour force survey and through the survey of employment, payrolls and hours. For sure, we'll keep track of how wages change as we move ahead.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you for your answer.

I'll take my question a little further.

In your data, have you seen any trends in pay levels?

If we were to break down incomes by quintile or percentile, for example, could you say that people in the upper quantile have done a better job of increasing their wages to combat the effect of inflation, or is it impossible to break down by decile, percentile or quintile, right now?

[Greg Peterson]

I don't think we have that data at the moment.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Okay, thank you very much. So those are things we'll be looking at.

Have you seen any substitution effects, for example, in the Survey of Household Spending?

Have you noticed whether the price of beef has increased more than other types of meat, for instance?

Are you already able to see some substitution effects?

If so, what are they and how big are they?

[Greg Peterson]

That's a good question.

Perhaps I'll turn to either Ms. Ertl or Ms. Mitchell on whether we've seen any early indicators.

[Taylor Mitchell]

Could you please clarify the question? As I understood it, you're interested in understanding whether we're seeing consumers make those substitutions.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Yes, absolutely, but I'm not necessarily just talking about food. It can be other categories of expenses.

With your current statistics, are you able to see some substitution effects?

If so, what are they and how big are they?

[Taylor Mitchell]

We typically see the effects of substitutions when the CPI basket is updated. It will be updated this June. It was last updated last summer.

At this point, for food products, for instance, we are seeing a number of increases across the board for major food categories. For meat, for example, we are seeing increases for beef, pork and chicken, but we're not seeing anything at this point in the price data that indicates that substitutions are being made. However, this is information that will become more clear when the basket is updated and we can see how consumers [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

In closing, I would like to thank you again, Mr. Peterson, and the entire Statistics Canada team for all the work you do. You've answered all my questions well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's excellent.

We are moving to the NDP. Mr. Blaikie will be our final MP to ask questions.

You have four minutes, Mr. Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In the course of my parliamentary career so far, such as it's been, I think it's fair to say I've never shied away from highlighting differences and pressing on issues that I think are important, but I'm also always willing to collaborate and co-operate wherever possible across party lines. In the course of that work, I've benefited at committee, a number of times, from Conservatives who have been willing to share their time with me when an issue has been of particular importance and significance to me.

I know there are Conservatives on this committee who have suggested having StatsCan back already. I would happily cede my time to a Conservative colleague who might have further questions of our witnesses today.

Just before I pass the floor, I'd like to echo the thanks of Monsieur Ste-Marie to our witnesses for being here today and for providing good answers to our questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Blaikie.

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you. It's wonderful how things work, Mr. Chair.

Again, thanks to the presenters today.

As indicated on its websites, Statistics Canada will publish, on June 15 of this year, the new weights for the basket of goods and services used to calculate the CPI. The new reference period for the basket will be 2021.

To what extent have supply chain disruptions put upward pressures on prices in 2021?

[Greg Peterson]

I think we've seen increases in prices throughout the year.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Will you need to adjust the base period to account for the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the general level of consumer prices?