Here's the thing. I'll challenge you on that as well.
I used to do due diligence when I practised law. If, in fact, there's no risk, then there's no cost. That means that if these companies are managing their pensions appropriately and diligently as they're supposed to, there's not going to be an additional cost. The lender is going to look and say that the company has a beautiful pension—it's all annuitized, they have no risk, it's going to be paid for and they're doing all the right things—so they won't add a dime of interest. It's only for those companies that are investing it inappropriately and short-funding the employees that there will be additional costs, and maybe there should be.