Finance Committee on Oct. 26th, 2022

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

I'll go now to the Business Council of Canada. I was very much intrigued by your presentation with respect to the industrial strategy.

I wonder if you would just quickly characterize—I don't expect you to have a full answer, but just an estimate—where Canada might rank in terms of the OECD or the G7—whichever is more convenient—in terms of capital investment, innovation and productivity.

[Robert Asselin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question.

Those are the areas where we are weak. The reason we have low productivity is that we don't have enough business investments, and the reason we don't have business investments is partly that we don't have enough large firms in the economy investing.

The composition of our economy, I would argue, is too focused on the consumption of real estate, as opposed to productive sectors, advanced industries or innovative industries. The reality for modern competitiveness is that we have to compete with other countries where R and D is intensive and where competition occurs. If you look at tech and most sectors where R and D and STEM workers are present, this is where competition occurs. We have to invest, and we have to be very surgical when we think about industrial strategy.

As I mentioned in my remarks, the U.S. just made a big move with the U.S. CHIPS and Science Act and the IRA. I believe that Canada has to have a more comprehensive strategy when it comes to innovation. What we have right now is very targeted measures, with programs like the strategic innovation fund that are not sufficient, in my view, to compete at the global level.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

You also mentioned the regulatory environment. One of the things I'm focusing on is looking at the income tax and the tax regime.

Where would you rank Canada's income tax and tax regime? Is it inducing? Is it incentivizing? Is it helping to empower Canadian innovators, or is it a barrier?

[Robert Asselin]

That's another good question, Mr. Chair.

When you look at budget 2018, the then finance minister announced measures to have a level playing field with what had been announced by the Trump administration in the U.S. However, now that we've seen the IRA come forward in the U.S., I believe that on taxation and tax credits for investments, they are moving forward and they are leading us. Obviously, the U.S. is the main competitor when you think about capital.

I would characterize us as being in the middle of the pack on taxation, both on personal income tax and on corporate income tax. The finale is not who has the least tax possible; it's whether globally we have a competitive tax system that attracts investments. I would argue that we could do much better on that front.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you very much. I'm inclined to agree with you there.

Next I'll jump to the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs. I think you gave some very intelligent testimony and some very good ideas. I would like to give you a bit of an opportunity to put some context around some of those suggestions.

I think it's been fairly well reported that we've seen a rise in anti-Semitism. Could you talk about the impact on some of the people in your community? Do you agree with me that there has been a rise in anti-Semitism?

[Shimon Koffler Fogel]

Thank you for the question.

It's not a question of my subjective assessment of whether there's been a rise. The objective statistics—provided not just by national agencies, but by police forces across the country—indicate that there's been an alarming rise. I hasten to add that even though the Jewish community is the single most targeted one, the increase has been pretty much across the board. I think what that suggests is that a normalization has been occurring over the last number of years of speech and action that would have previously been considered marginal or unacceptable.

That is why, for example, we are strong advocates of the social media literacy campaign. Given the role that social media platforms play within society today, we think that an exceedingly important target is educating Canadians on what constitutes fair speech and responsible speech and use of social media platforms, versus those who abuse it in ways that serve to marginalize, threaten, bully, intimidate and exclude different segments of society.

For us, the experience that we go through as a Jewish community is not just about us. It's instructive about what other marginalized and at-risk communities feel, because what starts with the Jews never ends with the Jews. We should take the statistics to heart and move prophylactically to put into place those things that are going to provide Canadians with adequate defence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you. That's the time.

I need to inform members that the bells are ringing. We would need unanimous consent to continue up to 10 minutes before the vote, and then allow 10 minutes for members to get back to the meeting.

Do we have unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We will continue. Thank you, members.

We are now moving to the Liberals.

MP Baker, you have six minutes, please.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. I have questions for all of you, although I may not get to all of you. If I don't, I apologize in advance.

Mr. Terrazzano, I'll go to you first. How would you describe the taxpayers the Canadian Taxpayers Federation represents? Who are they?

[Franco Terrazzano]

We represent 235,000 Canadian taxpayers who support our mission to fight for lower taxes, less waste and more government accountability.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

If I heard you correctly in your exchange with Mr. Lawrence—I just want to confirm this so that I understand—you are advocating that there be no increases to EI premiums or CPP premiums. Is that correct? That's a yes-or-no question.

[Franco Terrazzano]

What we think is that at the very least, it should have been a no-brainer for the government not to raise taxes in the middle of a pandemic—

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Terrazzano—

[Franco Terrazzano]

—when so many people lost their jobs—

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

—I have very limited time.

[Franco Terrazzano]

—and many people maybe even lost their small business.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair—

[Franco Terrazzano]

For the government to raise the carbon tax—

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

—could I ask you to ask the witness to allow me to speak?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Mr. Terrazzano, the member has the floor.

Go ahead.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I offered you the respect, Mr. Terrazzano, of listening to your testimony without interruption. Whether I agree or disagree, I'd ask you to offer me that same courtesy.

So I am asking you a question—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Yes, Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I believe the witness should be given the same amount of time as the questioner, and I don't believe that was respected, Mr. Chair. I believe that is the general—