Finance Committee on Nov. 21st, 2022

Evidence of meeting #67 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Subject Matter of Bill C-32, An Act to implement certain provisions of the fall economic statement tabled in Parliament on November 3, 2022 and certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 7, 2022

Committee Business

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jason Wood Executive Director, Space Exploration and Space Industry Policy, Canadian Space Agency

Luc Beaudry Director, Engagement Policy Directorate, Indigenous Institutions and Governance Modernization, Resolution and Partnerships, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs

Atiq Rahman Assistant Deputy Minister, Learning Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lindsay Gwyer Director General, Legislation, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Jack Glick Senior Advisor, Sales Tax Division, Department of Finance

Pierre Mercille Director General, Sales Tax Legislation, Sales Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Pierre Leblanc Director, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Maximilian Baylor Senior Director, Saving and Investment Section, Business Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Yves Poirier Director, Economic Development, Personal Income Tax Division, Department of Finance

Blaine Langdon Director, Charities, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Pascale Dugré-Sasseville Director, Financial Insitutions Taxation, Department of Finance

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

Okay.

That was a lengthy interjection there.

That's really all I wanted to know.

I saw Mr. Baker, who obviously I'm a big fan of, had his hand up there, so I wanted to....

Just for the record, I am a big fan of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms—in fact, of the entire document I am.

5:05 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

Thank you.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Thank you, MP Lawrence.

You have a big fan here, MP Baker.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

This is great. I hope these negotiations behind the scenes take a while. Give me more of that. This is on the record. Am I right?

5:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

5:05 p.m.

Ivan Baker

I would echo what MP Blaikie said a moment ago, which is it would be nice, given that we have so many folks who have given their time to this study that we're supposed to be focused on today on the bill, that we'd be able to come back to that. I think what MP Beech has offered is a commitment that.... There's nothing from us saying that this is an unreasonable motion that has been brought forward, or that we're trying to prevent it from moving forward, or passing. We want to offer some minor suggestions that are constructive.

I guess I would also offer the suggestion that the time and place for that isn't right now, given that we're trying to study the bill. The time and place for that is between the meetings, which MP Beech has offered as a path for doing that.

I'm echoing MP Beech's commitment to getting this through, and just that the process be undertaken outside this particular meeting.

Secondly, I want to add to MP Blaikie's point. It's not just that the folks have made the effort to be here from the civil service, but also from a pure fiscal responsibility perspective.... We have the Conservatives talking about the charter of rights, MP Blaikie talking about fiscal responsibility. Pigs are flying today.

5:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

5:05 p.m.

Ivan Baker

In the spirit of fiscal responsibility I would suggest, again, that the better use of our time right now, all of our time, would be to really focus on the bill and the study we're in. Then we could have the discussions behind the scenes that we need to have to get this motion forward in a thoughtful, productive way and make whatever amendments are necessary.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Thank you, MP Baker.

I did see MP Chatel's hand go up.

MP Chatel.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

The motion is important because it will—

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'm sorry.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC

Please go ahead.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

Could we break for five minutes to have a quick discussion? I think we might have it in two minutes.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Members, we are going to suspend quickly now. But I just want members to know that our end time still will be at 5:31 p.m.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

We're back, members.

The last to have the floor is MP Hallan.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

Thank you, Chair.

I just want to put this on the record. Thank you, Mr. Beech. I think we're heading in the right direction working together on this one. I just want to thank Mr. Beech for his openness.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Thank you, MP Hallan.

Parliamentary Secretary Beech.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

Well, thank you. I hope all members of the committee can continue to work together.

I just want to tell everyone who wasn't part of the conversation that I believe what is about to happen is that we have four amendments that we think are valuable contributions. We're going to present those amendments, and we're going to try to keep debate to a minimum.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Thank you, MP Beech.

Are you presenting those amendments?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

No.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

I have MP Baker, number one, and MP MacDonald.

MP Baker.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Mr. Chair, I have a procedural question.

I have a couple of amendments I'd like to present. Do we need to deal with MP MacDonald's first?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Number one will be MP MacDonald's amendment, so the motion as amended by MP MacDonald's amendment.

Is everyone in agreement?

(Amendment agreed to)

We have unanimous consent. Great. Thank you.

Now we have MP Baker.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Thanks very much, Chair.

I move that after the words “in addition to other key committee appearances”, we add the following: “and that these meetings start in 2023”. So this would obviously set that requirement.

May I continue speaking to it, Chair? Yes.

This would set the requirement for these appearances to begin in 2023 and here's a little bit of my thinking on this. The governor will be appearing on his monetary policy report on November 23 and we have the deputy prime minister appearing for a second time very soon, and as with her last appearance I'm sure she'll be happy to answer questions on inflation as well as the bill. So looking at the calendar and the rest of our fall session, I think we're quite full.

Chair, I don't know if you can quickly summarize what we have before us in terms of business, but from my vantage point, we're quite full.