Evidence of meeting #7 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC
That's very good. I'm just about to move a motion.
First of all, I'd like to say hi to my friend Peter. Thanks for being here. He's my neighbour in British Columbia.
I put a notice to the committee two days ago about an administrative motion. I'd like to move that motion now.
I move that the committee authorize the clerk to distribute all committee documents to Peter Fragiskatos, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue.
I will note that Peter took the time to be here today for the motion.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
There is a motion on the floor to distribute documents.
Welcome, PS Fragiskatos. I know that you were a long-time member of this committee.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
I was, so it's nice to see Mr. Julian again and to hear today from Ms. Dzerowicz.
I'm here today for the motion, but to colleagues on all sides, I will be sitting in as an associate member from time to time, and I really look forward to working with everyone and, of course, you, Mr. Chair, our esteemed chair.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
I know the committee has asked two ministers to appear in connection with its work. The Minister of Finance, Ms. Freeland, appeared before the committee yesterday. I spoke with my fellow Bloc Québécois members—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Ms. Larouche, sorry to cut you off.
We are still in the motion that was put on the floor by Mr. Beech. We'll debate that, and then I will hear your point of order.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
I'm looking for discussion. Is there no discussion? Okay.
(Motion agreed to)
It is passed, yes. You can distribute the documents.
Does everybody have a copy?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Now we will distribute all the documents from Mr. Fragiskatos.
Thank you very much.
Now we have Madame Larouche.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.
As I was saying, the committee asked two ministers to appear in connection with its work. The Minister of Finance, Ms. Freeland, appeared before the committee yesterday, and we thank her sincerely. The Minister of Canadian Heritage, however, has yet to appear before the committee.
Where do things stand with his invitation? Has the heritage minister definitely been invited?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
The minister has been invited for this Monday, and also we have Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of this week.
Members, welcome to meeting number 7 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. Pursuant to the House of Commons order of reference adopted on December 2, 2021, the committee is meeting on Bill C-2, an act to provide further support in response to COVID-19.
Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So you're aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.
Today's meeting is also taking place in the webinar format. Webinars are for public committee meetings and are available only to members, their staff and witnesses. Members enter immediately as active participants. All functionalities for active participants remain the same. Staff will be non-active participants and can therefore only view the meeting in gallery view.
I'd like to take this opportunity to remind all participants in this meeting that taking screenshots or photos of your screen is not permitted.
Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from the health authorities, as well as the directive from the Board of Internal Economy on October 19, 2021, to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person are to maintain a two-metre physical distance and must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. As well, it is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when you are seated. Proper hand hygiene must be maintained through the use of the provided hand sanitizer at the entrance to the room.
As the chair, I'll be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting. I thank members in advance for their co-operation.
To ensure an orderly meeting, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow.
Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have a choice at the bottom of your screen of either “floor”, “English” or “French”. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately, and we will ensure that interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.
The “raise-hand” feature at the bottom of your screen can be used at any time if you wish to speak or alert the chair. For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in the committee room. Keep in mind the Board of Internal Economy's guidelines for mask use and health protocols.
Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as it normally would be by the proceedings and verification officer. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you're not speaking, your microphone should be on mute.
I remind everyone that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.
With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do our very best to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they're participating virtually or in person.
To members and witnesses, when you have 30 seconds left in your questioning time, I will signal you with this paper just to keep on track.
Members, before we get started with our officials today, I will tell you that we'll be going through three rounds to give enough opportunity to ask questions on Bill C-2. I'm leaving the remainder of our meeting time for some committee business.
I would now like to welcome witnesses from the Canada Revenue Agency. We have with us Janique Caron, chief financial officer and assistant commissioner, finance and administration branch; Cathy Hawara, assistant commissioner, compliance programs branch; Marc Lemieux, assistant commissioner, collections and verification branch; and Frank Vermaeten, assistant commissioner, assessment, benefit and service branch.
Clerk, is one of the witnesses going to make an opening statement, or will...?
Okay, one of the witnesses will make an opening statement for five minutes before we move to members' questions. Who will be making the opening statement?
Frank Vermaeten Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Chair, I will.
Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Good afternoon, everyone, and good afternoon, Mr. Chair.
I'm having some technical difficulties, as are some people in the agency today, so hopefully you can hear me loud and clear.
Thank you for the invitation to appear before this committee today to provide you with additional information regarding the support of the Canada Revenue Agency, or CRA, in delivering the Government of Canada's COVID‑19 emergency support benefits.
With me today are several of the assistant commissioners of the agency—namely, Cathy Hawara of the compliance branch, Marc Lemieux of the collections and verification branch and Janique Caron of the finance and administration branch.
Mr. Chair, over the past 20 months we have delivered support to both Canadians and businesses through several emergency support benefits, including the Canada emergency wage subsidy, the CEWS; the Canada emergency rent subsidy, the CERS; the Canada recovery sickness benefit, the CRSB; and more. I am proud to say that these benefits have been instrumental in Canada’s economic recovery. In fact, the CEWS has helped more than 5.3 million Canadians keep their jobs, with over $97 billion in support already paid out through the program to help employers rehire workers and avoid layoffs.
Additionally, the CERS has helped more than 215,000 organizations with over $7 billion in support for rent, mortgage and other expenses.
The Canada recovery sickness benefit has delivered over $829 million to 750,000 Canadians. This benefit has provided income support to employed and self-employed individuals who were unable to work because they were sick, needed to self-isolate due to COVID-19, or had an underlying health condition that put them at greater risk of getting COVID-19.
Mr. Chair, that is why the Canada Revenue Agency will be proud to continue to administer COVID-19 supports and benefits should Bill C-2 be approved. The proposed legislation would continue to provide targeted support where it is needed to those Canadians and Canadian businesses that are most affected by COVID. In fact, this proposed legislation would extend until May 7, 2022, the Canada recovery hiring program that was introduced in budget 2021, and would provide a subsidy of up to 50% to eligible employers with current revenue losses above 10%.
This extension would help businesses continue to hire back workers, increase hours and create the additional jobs Canada needs for a robust recovery. This bill would also deliver targeted support to businesses still facing significant pandemic-related challenges.
Additionally, this proposed legislation would support individuals who are affected by illness or family obligations through an extension of the Canada recovery caregiving benefit and the Canada recovery sickness benefit, as well as by establishing the Canada worker lockdown benefit to provide income support to eligible workers who are directly impacted by a COVID-related public health lockdown.
In closing, I would like to emphasize that the CRA's mandate is to administer tax, benefit and related programs, and to ensure compliance, thereby contributing to the ongoing economic and social well-being of Canadians.
For this reason, the agency remains committed to supporting Canadian businesses, as we have since the beginning of the pandemic, by putting Canadians at the centre of everything we do. CRA employees are very proud to have supported millions of Canadian workers and businesses, following our “people first” philosophy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We would be happy to answer your questions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, Mr. Vermaeten. That was excellent timing.
We will move now to questions by our members. In the first round, each member has six minutes.
We will commence with the Conservatives. Mr. Stewart, you have six minutes.
Conservative
Jake Stewart Conservative Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of course, all questions will be through the chair.
I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today. We had a motion, and as a committee we felt it was really important for the CRA to have representation here. Over the course of the past week, we've had a very difficult time getting answers to questions. We know that the finance department, and all of our witnesses previously, couldn't tell us where the money that will be used is coming from. FINTRAC was here and let us know that they were not consulted with the drafting of this new bill, even with respect to their warning CRA, yourselves, in the summer of 2020, of the potential that these benefits could be defrauded.
On behalf of my constituents today in Miramichi—Grand Lake, number one, I hope we can break the streak and get some answers today. What role did CRA play in drafting the last emergency response bill related to the pandemic, the one previous to Bill C-2?
Liberal
Conservative
Conservative
Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Maybe I can start. Others are welcome to provide additional comments.
Certainly part of our job is to work with other agencies when we have to administer something and there's legislation there. We look at it. We provide comments and try to make suggestions on potential improvements.
In terms of responsibility for the legislation, in the case of the business benefits, it's the responsibility of the Department of Finance, and in the case of the individual benefits, it's primarily Employment and Social Development Canada. It's their legislation, but of course others will participate by providing comments to make sure that the legislation is administrable as well as by providing any other comments that we might have for improvement. Of course, our role is not a policy role, in that sense. Our focus is really on the administration