Evidence of meeting #7 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
I call the meeting back to order. Welcome back, everyone.
I want to thank the clerk and many around the table, the staff and all others, for all of their hard work. We have got hold of the AG, and it looks like she will be available from 12 to one o'clock, so we do have confirmation of that.
3:55 p.m.
A voice
Call the question.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
No. If I could, I just want to make sure the motion reflects that.... The operation of the motion is dependent on her appearance and on the appearance of the officials from CRA.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC
The point of calling the AG and confirming was to give everyone on the other side assurances. We can't support that as an amendment. I hope that the motion as it is, including the new witnesses, is sufficient.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
If it is the case that she is going to be here and the CRA officials are going to be here, let's just put it in writing.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC
Unfortunately, while I believe they have all the best intentions and it's been confirmed by our clerk, things happen, don't they?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Right. I agree. Let's talk about that, then.
I want to thank the chair for reaching out to the Auditor General. I have to say that there was some confusion about why the Auditor General did not appear when invited earlier on.
That said, this committee obviously can't approve billions more in spending without reviewing the Auditor General's inquiries into earlier and similar spending. If the government really has confidence in the way the dollars were spent, it should have no concern about having the Auditor General appear here to testify on that spending.
The members across the way tell me that she is coming to this committee, but they are not prepared to put that in writing. This welcomes the question, “Why not?” Are we expecting a last-minute cancellation? If so, why wouldn't we just specify in the motion a little bit of flexibility so that rescheduling could occur?
We have already, as Conservatives, indicated that we would even welcome another senior official from the Auditor General's office. It's rather unusual to allow that, because the Auditor General is a servant of Parliament and normally parliamentary officers show up here in a heartbeat when they are invited by committees. I don't understand why, frankly, the AG hasn't already arrived and testified, having been invited. That is very peculiar. Actually, I've never seen it in my 17 years here, including several years on the public accounts committee, that being the committee to which the AG reports.
I also note that one of the conditions for Parliament granting the expeditious passage of the COVID emergency spending was that the Auditor General would audit all of that spending. We're now coming on two years since that condition applied. By the way, this committee was responsible for overseeing all of that, and we still haven't had the Auditor General come here to tell us her findings. Putting aside that this government is now asking us to pass another $7 billion of spending, which in and of itself has been rushed, it would have been normal business for the AG to come to testify regardless.
We're saying that you don't even have to do that. Bring a senior representative in her place if she's not available but, for God's sake, surely this committee can't approve yet $7 billion more without at least hearing from the auditor who is responsible for telling us how the previous $100 billion was spent. It's a very small request, actually, and I'm confused as to why this is even controversial. I'm not expecting that the government is going to agree with my fiscal policy. Obviously we have very different points of view. If the—
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Mr. Poilievre, I'm going to interject.
Not only have we received verbal confirmation from the Attorney General—
4 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Great. Put it in writing. No problem. It's the Auditor General—
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
—but the Attorney General has put it in writing, as just received by the clerk, that she will be appearing. It is in writing here.
I take the Attorney General at her word, both verbal and written, that she will be appearing.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
I'm sorry. It's the Auditor General. I apologize.
I don't know why I said “Attorney General”. It's the Auditor General.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Mr. Chair, as one final request, could we invite Jody Wilson-Raybould to appear?
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Again, Mr. Poilievre, both verbally and in writing, the Auditor General has confirmed that she will be appearing on Monday.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Okay.
Can I just confer with my colleagues for 60 seconds?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
I would just ask Mr. Beech, as he seems assured that the AG is going to be here, why he wouldn't just put that in the motion and make it a matter of finality. We could be out of here and everyone could be on their flights.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC
I would be extremely happy to be out of here and be on my flight back to my daughters and my wife back in British Columbia.
I think we've been pretty clear that this is an important bill. We want to make sure that it gets passed to support Canadians. There have been verbal and written assurances that the Auditor General—I'm almost saying “Attorney General” now—or some senior representative in their stead will be here between 12 o'clock and one o'clock on Monday. I am looking forward to their testimony.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
If the Auditor General doesn't come, then we have assurances that the Attorney General will begin prosecuting Mr. Beech.
4:05 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!