Evidence of meeting #7 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you very much. If you could provide it to the committee in writing, that would be very helpful.
With regard to the Canada workers benefit recipients, how many have experienced a decrease in their CWB because they received payments from a COVID-19 financial support program? What was the average monthly reduction in their CWB payment?
Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
It's the same thing. I don't have the numbers available, but you are correct. If an income goes up, their CWB in some cases could go down, so you're going to see some of that. Likewise, when incomes go down, you'll see increases in the CWB. Because of the enrichment to the CWB, it does make things a little more complicated in terms of calculating, but we'd be happy to look for those numbers.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Yes, thank you very much. As I'm sure you're aware, this is very relevant to the study of Bill C-2.
Madam Larouche mentioned the GIS. That's an important reference. We know that over 80,000 people have been impacted by accessing the COVID-19 financial supports. Would you be able to tell the committee what the average monthly reduction was for seniors in GIS payments as a result of that clawback?
Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
I would not.
I'll just say briefly that it can be somewhat complicated, because individuals receive employment insurance, and that migrated to the CRB that was provided by ESDC. Isolating those impacts can be conceptually difficult, but we certainly can look at what numbers are available, if that's what you're looking for.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Absolutely. You would have those numbers, so I don't think what we're asking for is over the moon. You will have the numbers, and they are, again, very relevant for our study.
Would you be able to give us a sense of what the anticipated revenue is that the government is looking to recover from CERB and CRB recipients under the LIM, the low income measure?
Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
I apologize.
I'll turn this over to my colleague Marc Lemieux regarding the impacts—that is, if you're looking at how much money we are going to recover in terms of overpayments. Is that what you're looking for?
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
It is, but for low-income Canadians. Clawing it back from low-income recipients, as you know, has been a controversial subject.
Is there an anticipated revenue that you're expecting to see as a clawback?
Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
If the question is whether we have a precise number right now, I'll turn to my colleague. I'm sure the answer is “no” at this point, as it is an ongoing process to determine who is ineligible and whether a recovery is possible.
Assistant Commissioner, Collections and Verification Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
As Frank was saying, we don't have the numbers at this time. We haven't started to send requests for the reimbursement, so it's difficult at this time to give you a number. The approach that the agency takes in everything we do is to put people first. When we do collections and recovery, we will take into account the situation of each individual and consider their capacity to repay.
In cases of low-income recipients, we have measures in place to offer flexibility and take their financial situation into account.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you for that.
You would also have the figures internally. We've questioned Canada Revenue before, and you do have the figures in your database. That's certainly what I and our finance critic, Daniel Blaikie, are looking for. It would also be useful for the committee as a whole.
I'll move on to any analysis the government did around anticipated impacts on low-income workers or self-employed workers from cancelling the CRB. I'm thinking of independent contractors, workers on online platforms, workers in contracted businesses, on-call workers and temporary workers.
Are you aware of any studies that were done or conducted of the impact prior to or after cancelling the CRB program?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, Mr. Julian. That question may have to wait for another round. We are now moving to the Conservatives and Mr. Chambers.
You have five minutes.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, you're very distinguished in following in the footsteps of Wayne Easter. Wayne Easter always allowed the questions to be answered.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Mr. Julian, we had already reached the six-minute mark. For a question to be answered, we would go well into seven minutes.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
—and if they'll share that with the committee. That's a very brief answer.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Mr. Julian, it didn't sound like the answer was going to be so brief, so, Mr. Julian,—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
It's all about fairness here and about being fair with our time for everybody, so we're moving to Mr. Chambers for five minutes.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
On a point of order, I think Mr. Julian's request is entirely reasonable. Mr. Easter would normally allow just a few seconds to try to get an answer at the end.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Mr. Poilievre, the meetings are being conducted in a fair way. I've been tracking time as efficiently as possible and ensuring that all members—
