Evidence of meeting #9 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mclean.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:10 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Fair enough. I'm just trying to sort out what we've heard. That's all.
Pardon me. I'm sure the mistake is all mine.
9:10 p.m.
Benoit Cadieux Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
I can take this question.
The activities related to the administration of the act are more than just the payment of benefits. They also include integrity measures—for example, post-verification measures—which can last much longer than the end of the payment of benefits. For example, the recovery of overpayments and the recovery of debt can last for many years after the benefits were paid. That's why we're proposing to extend the date by two years.
9:15 p.m.
Liberal
Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you for that, Mr. Cadieux.
What I hear you saying is that.... If we adopted an earlier date, as proposed by Mr. McLean, and there were post-payment verifications or collections that weren't complete by that time, would that mean that those collections could not be executed after that date?
9:15 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
What it means is that the funds required to fund those activities could not come out of the CRF. The government would have to come back later with a further amendment to this act to further extend the end date, or they could perhaps seek those funds some other way, through appropriations or through the estimates process.
9:15 p.m.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The amendment is reasonable in that, just on its face, a seven-month extension ought not to result in a multiple-year extension.
That being said, I recognize the importance of the post-verification process. However, it would be incumbent upon Parliament to revisit that question at a later time if there was post-verification work that was not completed or if we hadn't exhausted that function. What we're merely suggesting is that if we want to go longer, we should come back to the House and seek direction from the legislative branch.
9:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
To the officials, does this two-year authorization period enable the cabinet to extend the benefits beyond the seven months that are proposed in the legislation?
9:15 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
It does not.
9:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Just to be clear, the period of two years beyond the seven months of benefits is strictly for post-benefit verification and the recuperation of wrongly paid funds, and not to empower the government to extend benefits.
9:15 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
This provision allows for the funds for all activities related to the administration of this act to come out of the CRF. It does not give the government the power to further extend the end dates of the benefits.
9:15 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Thank you, Mr. Cadieux. I need some clarification from you.
Before this legislation was in front of us, you had until March 2024 to finish your work on this. Now, for some reason, you're saying, “Okay, if we extend it by seven months, we'll need two years-plus past that point in order to finish our work.” I am confused about how you're arriving at this new time frame and why there's the sudden expansion of your work in that respect and the time to do your work. Can you explain that to us, please?
9:15 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
The extension.... For example, if you look at the limitation of the time period to impose penalties, there's a three-year time period to do that. That's in the act as well. This extension would allow recovery activities such as those to happen. It's simply the recognition that March 31, 2024 was just not enough time to cover some of the activities that could take place following the end date of the benefits.
That's why an extension of two years was proposed. It's simply to give additional time for those activities to take place.
December 13th, 2021 / 9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
There was one thing you said in the beginning about legislation. Is it this revised legislation we're looking at today, Bill C-2, that allows three more years?
9:20 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
No, that's in the existing act.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
I still feel like I'm getting a non-answer—and I apologize, Mr. Cadieux, for putting it that way—but you are extending a program by seven months and you're extending the limits of the payments in that program, to administer it, by two years. This is still confusing.
The current legislation allows you until March 2024. These benefits are going to extend that by seven months, and you want to extend the time to administer those benefits by two years.
9:20 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
That's correct.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
I need an answer from you about why you're buying an extra year and a half in the process here.
9:20 p.m.
Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
I think you have to keep in mind as well that this program was put in place in 2020. It was extended a number of times, but this date in particular was not extended every time the program was extended. This is just an opportunity to catch up and extend that date as required.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Mr. Chair, I'll yield the amendment. Mr. Cadieux seems quite intent that he needs this time, so I will yield.
Thank you.
9:20 p.m.
Liberal
9:20 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
I don't want to move past the point where I could move NDP-8. I'm just checking on where we're at with respect to when NDP-8 would be moved.
