Evidence of meeting #19 for Finance in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was billion.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Leblanc  Director General, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Baylor  Director General, Business Income Tax Division, Department of Finance
De Freitas  Director, International Inbound Investment, Tax Legislation Division, Department of Finance
Bartucci  Director, Strategic Projects, Personal Income Tax Division, Department of Finance
Coulombe  Director General, Legislation, Sales Tax Division, Department of Finance
Fraser  Director, Financial Services Innovation, Department of Finance
Saeedi  Senior Director, Strategic Initiatives, Department of Finance
Hunt  Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Department of Finance
Hamel  Director General, Financial Services Division, Department of Finance
Wong  Director, Digital Assets, Department of Finance
Radley  Director, Consumer Affairs, Department of Finance
Emde  Director General, Funds Management Division, Department of Finance
McDonald  Economist, Asset Management, Department of Finance
Russell  Director, Framework Policy, Department of Finance

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Business Income Tax Division, Department of Finance

Maximilian Baylor

We'll see what we can do.

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Can we follow up on that as well, Madam Chair?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Business Income Tax Division, Department of Finance

Maximilian Baylor

We should be able to provide that for the committee, absolutely.

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Thank you very much.

I want to talk about the digital services tax.

We know the story. Donald Trump made threats—Mr. Carney did what he did, or at least what he did until last week: He threw in the towel and they axed the tax.

I'd like to know exactly how much tax revenue the federal government is going to forgo over the next five years because they scrapped the digital services tax.

Ingrid De Freitas Director, International Inbound Investment, Tax Legislation Division, Department of Finance

Thank you for the question. I will answer in English, to make sure I'm accurate.

The projected revenue for the DST, which was an estimate, was $2.3 billion for 2024-25. That reflects three years' worth of revenue due to the nature of the history of that measure. It would be $900 million in each subsequent year.

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

We know that our media are in crisis, that they need help and that this revenue would have gone to them.

Has the department planned any mitigation measures to help our media?

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Thank you, Mr. Garon. That's all the time we have for this round of questions.

Mr. Strauss, you have five minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the officials for being here. This is my first time coming to the finance committee. I am covering for a colleague who had a family emergency, so please go easy on me.

As for the BIA and the tax measures that are there and implemented, just educate me a bit on how the Department of Finance works. Regarding those tax measures, does your department provide advice to the government model on how those measures will affect the prices of the goods they tax and inflation more generally?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Business Income Tax Division, Department of Finance

Maximilian Baylor

This is in terms of how, in general, it would apply to most tax measures that the Department of Finance does.

Yes, as you suggest, the department would provide analysis as to the expected impacts, implications and considerations surrounding tax measures. Depending on the measure, depending on the circumstances and depending on the extent of it, it may include certain data and certain assessments, or it may not.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you.

I'm a bit confused as a new parliamentarian because we just had this budget and now we're discussing a BIA. The Prime Minister announced new GST credit measures to do with the price of groceries this morning.

Is it peculiar that this was not included in the BIA, and did your department provide advice to the government about the effects that such a tax credit measure would have when the budget and the BIA were prepared just a couple of months ago?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Pierre Leblanc

We can say that for a measure to be in this budget implementation act, it needs to have been presented, proposed or confirmed in budget 2025, which took place in November. Any measure you see here was announced either in the budget or before that.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

All right, but I'm wondering if your department provided advice to the government about a GST credit to do with the price of groceries during those processes. I'm not asking about what's in here; I'm asking about what's not in here and whether your department has internal memos about that.

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Pierre Leblanc

We're here to focus on what's in here. That's our purpose: to provide the best answers we can on measures that are in the bill.

I can say that, as a tax policy branch, we provide advice to the Minister of Finance on tax measures generally.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

If you provided advice through internal memos to the government on the GST credit that was announced this morning, would you be able to tell me you had? Would I be able to see those memos? If not, why not?

4 p.m.

Director General, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Pierre Leblanc

We're here to discuss what's in parts 1 through 4 of the bill. I hope we can continue to provide answers on that.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

I encourage members to stick to the budget implementation act, please.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

I'm left with the same question. I don't understand why that couldn't be answered. My concern with the budget implementation act is there's a massive multi-billion dollar spend that's been announced to do with tax policy, but it's not in the document before us. I'm asking honestly, as a new parliamentarian, if someone can explain to me why it isn't. Now that it has been announced, will your department be modelling the effects of this tax credit on inflation? When will this committee be hearing about those models now that it has been announced?

4 p.m.

Director General, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Pierre Leblanc

When that measure, which was announced today by the Prime Minister, is put forward in a bill and you consider it as parliamentarians, that's when we as officials will be able answer those questions before you and your committee.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

It was announced today, but your department has not modelled it yet. Is that correct?

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Mr. Strauss, I would just ask that we stick to the budget implementation act, because that's what officials are here to discuss today.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

I'm of the view that this should be in the budget implementation act. I'm looking to understand why it isn't.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

It's probably a question better posed to the minister than officials, so if you could, stick to the budget implementation act.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Terrific.

There's an $80-billion deficit in the budget that was passed and that the present act implements. Can you help me understand what percentage of that new deficit will be monetized by the Bank of Canada?

4 p.m.

Director General, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Pierre Leblanc

We're here to answer questions on parts 1 through 4 of the bill, and we'd be very pleased to do so.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Strauss Conservative Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you.

Parts 1 through 4 of the bill include tax measures that create the $80-billion deficit before us. I'm wondering if your department has modelled how the deficit that is an outcome of this $80 billion from the tax measures will be monetized.