Finance Committee on Feb. 5th, 2026

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Just the number....

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I have to explain the framework, so I'm saying that we invest so that we can have—

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

It's okay. I don't have a lot of time.

Another constituent, Laurie, wants me to tell you that she is one of the millions of working poor, just above the line to receive the benefits. When is there going to be some kind of benefit coming her way?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would say that Bill C-19 is probably the answer—the Canadian groceries and essential benefits—

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

She's above the limit.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would say that she would have benefited from the tax cut. That's what I would respond to her, and I hope I can go knock on her door with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Cobena.

We will continue now with Mr. Sawatzky for five minutes.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We have come to the topic of affordability, which plays into competition among sectors. However, to ensure that there's competition, we also need to help small and medium-sized businesses and encourage their growth, so that people will have different options when it comes to buying things.

In my riding of New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, there are lots of SMEs. They're really the backbone of Canada's economy. They're a major source of productivity and growth.

We saw major disruptions during the COVID-19 pandemic, and that has had long-lasting effects on SMEs. Think about shutting down for over a year and the effects it would have on your employees and the ability to stay afloat. Now is an especially important time to make sure we're supporting these SMEs.

How will measures in the budget implementation act reduce barriers and create better conditions for SMEs to grow, innovate and compete in today's economy?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

That's a very good question, and thank you again for your focus on small and medium-sized businesses, because every member of Parliament obviously has SMEs in their riding. We know they're the backbone of the Canadian economy.

Let's be honest: If you're a small or medium-sized business just coming out of COVID and you're now dealing with the whole tariff situation and the change in the supply chain, it's been tough. That's why I'm saying the speed, scope and scale of change are quite unprecedented. These things particularly affect small and medium-sized businesses across the country.

I would point out the reform we did on the SR and ED tax credit to make it more predictable. What we heard from small and medium-sized businesses is that this was too cumbersome, because the audit would take years and there was no predictability in how much they would receive. That's why we went to the private sector and asked how we could reform that: “If you had a blank sheet of paper, what would you do?” They came back, and we implemented the recommendations they made. Now you can pre-apply for the credit. If you stay within the parameters, you have the predictability you need. There is no need for a long audit and or to wait for years to know how much you're going to receive.

This has been applauded. This is one of them.

The other one is the productivity superdeduction. That is really giving a hand to small and medium-sized businesses that, in the context of this uncertainty and the tariffs, may want to invest in plant equipment, machinery, technology, robots, automation, AI. This is the kind of boost they need, because that goes to their cash flow. That's the kind of need.

The other thing I would mention, if I have time, Madam Chair, is the buy Canadian policy. What businesses want is not a grant and it's not a loan: They want a customer. We at the federal level—and provincial, municipal, corporate Canada—have been talking to CEOs. We all need to do that, because that's the best way. What they want is a customer, and sometimes to be the first customer, so they can go abroad and say, “Well, my own government believes in my product, my services.”

That's why, for me, this is a game-changer, in addition to removing the interprovincial barriers, as we've seen recently. That could give a boost of north of $200 billion. If you're in P.E.I. and you want to sell in Alberta, Quebec or New Brunswick, removing these barriers is essential to our economic growth.

Those are the kinds of things that we've been focusing on to make sure that SMEs in the country can succeed.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you, Minister. Those are certainly some very concrete actions.

You mentioned having the timeline to make sure that the SR and ED credits can come in as quickly as possible. Of course, when you have employees to pay, sometimes an extra week can really make a difference, I'm sure.

I'll bring the conversation over to trade diversification, an essential thing for protecting Canadian jobs, particularly when we're looking at rising protectionism around the world. This budget includes new export financing tools, trade corridor investments and market expansion supports to help Canadian businesses access the Indo-Pacific and European markets and other emerging markets.

Could you tell us how this legislation is going to help Canadian exporters take advantage of new markets and strengthen Canada's trade diversification strategy?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

That's in 10 seconds.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

The national trade corridors will be helping to have more fluidity to bring our products to market.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Mr. Sawatzky.

Go ahead, Mr. Kelly, for five minutes, please.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

Minister, you've had a lot of time, I think, to prepare for this meeting.

There's a question that I have asked you repeatedly at committee of the whole and at your budget appearance here. It's a question that you never answer. I'm hoping that you've been well briefed and have maybe consulted your officials, and that today is the day that you will answer the question and tell Canadians in what year you will balance the budget.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

It's like you don't like my answers. It's not that the question is wrong. You just don't like the answer.

That's why I say that I think Canadians who are watching at home understand that we are in unprecedented times. As the International Monetary Fund said, you need to use that fiscal capacity to build in this country, protect our nation and empower Canadians.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

That wasn't an answer to my question. The answer to my question would necessitate a date or a year.

The question is, in what year will you balance the budget?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

As I said, I'm afraid you just don't like the answer, so you might want to change the question.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

No. You're a minister. You're here to answer questions. I've asked a question, and you're not answering it. You must have an answer: Your department is full of officials who go through all kinds of modelling and projecting. Your budget contains projections, but it doesn't go far enough out, maybe, to get to the year when the budget will be balanced. What year do your department officials tell you the budget will be balanced?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Well, let me put that in context. You might not like the answer anyway, but we live in, probably, the most uncertain time in the world. That's why you see, in G7 countries, that the reality now is that those who have the fiscal capacity are building their country, protecting their sovereignty, empowering their people. That's the best way for Canadians to grow our economy.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

Since you aren't answering it—you're giving a response that isn't an answer—am I to infer that there is no possibility, under your government, of ever balancing the budget?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

As I said, I refer you to.... You can look at the fiscal framework. It's in the budget. We're living in a very uncertain time, and I'm a responsible finance minister. When you're responsible, you base your answer on facts and on the reality of the moment.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

Would a responsible finance minister answer a basic financial question?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

As I said, you've been asking the same questions, and you still don't like the answer.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

No, you have never answered my question.