Finance Committee on Feb. 9th, 2026

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

There is more to say, but perhaps that's for a subsequent question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. MacDonald.

Mr. Garon, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister Fraser, I would like to get back to the issue of regulatory sandboxes.

My colleague talked about this. We're told that we could technically exempt an organization or a company from any legislation, except for the Criminal Code, when the objective involves innovation. I understand the concept of a regulatory sandbox. However, the definition in Bill C‑15 is quite broad.

Let me give you an example. Recently, at the start of the session, Parliament decided to protect the supply management system in its entirety. If a company wanted to innovate in order to process certain types of milk protein differently, for example, we could open a loophole in supply management for a few years to allow for innovation. We understand that innovation would be involved. However, this would affect legislation that covers a highly sensitive issue, particularly for dairy producers in Quebec and Ontario.

I understand the concept of a regulatory sandbox. I understand that it's governed by legislation and that a procedure must be followed. As Minister of Justice, don't you think that suspending all legislation, apart from the Criminal Code, is still quite a broad approach? Shouldn't your government be open to some amendments in order to include certain exceptions other than the Criminal Code, for example the supply management issue, which worries me a great deal?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

In my view, it's always a good idea to be open to amendments through the parliamentary process. That doesn't mean we accept every one that comes up, but we should be open to them. However, those should be grounded in principle and not in politics.

I was satisfied with certain protections that exist in the bill beyond the exemptions, as you've explained, that apply to the Criminal Code, notably that there's a period of time for which it applies, the need to have an intended purpose and the fact that you do it in public.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Let me clarify my question. I think that it ties in with your comments.

You're comfortable with the wording as it stands today, which provides for the suspension of all legislation except for the Criminal Code. Didn't you think that, as a matter of principle and not partisan politics, you would be uncomfortable with the idea of interfering with certain legislation?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I have a difficult time identifying, with precision, different acts off the top of my head because innovation, by its very nature, is coming up with ideas that we've not had yet.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

I apologize, Minister, but we're out of time for this round.

We will continue with Mr. Hallan, for five minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thanks, Chair.

Minister, I want to continue down that road of questioning, and the one that Mr. Lawton pursued as well, about this specific provision. Your government is once again asking for sweeping powers for any minister or the Prime Minister to exempt any entity or company from any law or regulation in Canada with the exception of the Criminal Code. Just give a yes or no: Does this include the Conflict of Interest Act?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I have a hard time seeing how that would apply in an innovation context.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

It's a simple question, though.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

It's not as simple as you make it out to be. If there's a circumstance you're trying to get at, maybe you could provide clarity or—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

The provision itself says:

exempt an entity from the application of

(a) a provision of an Act of Parliament

Is the Conflict of Interest Act not an act of Parliament?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm trying now to think of the manner in which a person would be exempted from—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

It's a straight yes or no: Could the Conflict of Interest Act be exempted by a minister of the Crown under this new provision?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I've not dug into this specific issue, but you're dealing with an area that applies uniquely to people who benefit from parliamentary privilege who would be exempt from certain kinds of acts. It's just a more complicated question the minute you start thinking about it than you give it credit for.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I think it's pretty clear from here that a company could be exempt from the Conflict of Interest Act if the Prime Minister or a minister were to deem it so.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

In what innovation context? This is not even to disagree but just to understand your question.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Let's put it into an example then. Let's say a company like Brookfield, which obviously has conflicts with the Prime Minister, is going to be getting a contract, or a minister is looking into whether to approve a contract for it or not. Could it be exempted from the Conflict of Interest Act by a minister after this is passed?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

The way you've described it, I'm not certain that's how it would operate. On balance, though, if there are things that you think need to be corrected or that could be improved for the integrity of the act to be strengthened, this is a great forum to make amendments. However, let's not lose sight of the forest for the trees, because we're going to lose out from an economic point of view when all our competitor economies are playing in this space and we choose not to.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I get it, but you have to understand why we are bringing these concerns forward. It's been reported even in the Toronto Star. Many Canadians are very concerned about this because these are sweeping powers you're giving.

I'll give you another example because it's concerning that you don't know whether that would fall under the Conflict of Interest Act or not, and you should. I would imagine you would. You're the Minister of Justice and Attorney General. In one way, you're also legal counsel for cabinet.

Here's another example: If a minister has a conflict with, let's say, a Chinese state-owned company that is also looking to get approval for a research grant or other approval in Canada, would it also be exempt from the Conflict of Interest Act with this provision?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I find it uniquely unhelpful to assess in the hypothetical the range of the possible different things that could come out, without the specific facts.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

These are things that could happen after this provision is passed—is that correct? That's why I'm putting these examples in front of you.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

It's just that I—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

It's concerning that you're not answering any of these questions.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Well, I'm seeking to. You may not like my answer, but I'm seeking to engage, in good faith, in this conversation right now. If you think there is a way you can protect the integrity in terms of the manner in which these authorities would be used—