Finance Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Good morning, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number three of the Standing Committee on Finance.

I hope everybody had a nice weekend.

This meeting will take place in a hybrid format. I would just like to remind participants of the following points. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. Those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic. Please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

I would like to ask the committee members participating in person or through Zoom to raise their hands if they wish to speak. The subcommittee clerk and I will do our best to maintain the speaking order. All comments should be addressed through the chair.

Mr. Garon, you have the floor.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, everyone.

I hope that you all had a great weekend and that it put you in a good frame of mind to continue discussing the motion that I moved last time.

I would like to move this motion again, Madam Chair.

Should I read it again, or can we consider it already read?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Is there unanimous consent to resume the debate?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I'm sorry. This is consent on....

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

This is on rebringing Mr. Garon's motion from Wednesday.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Is he going to read it into the record, or are you asking for consent to not read it in?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

It's for consent to resume debate.

Yes, Mr. Kelly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

It is his right to move the motion. He doesn't need consent. If you're asking to dispense with rereading it, I'm not even sure that this would require consent. It would be, I suppose, a nice thing to ask, but he absolutely has the right to move the motion without.... It's not up to anybody else but him.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kelly.

It belongs to the committee now, so the committee members have the right to decide whether they want to resume debate or whether we go to a vote. Do we have consent to move back to debate? Otherwise, we'll go straight to a vote.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Yes, we can move back to debate. I mean, he's moved his motion, right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Okay, great.

Seeing that we're moving back into debate, do I have speakers on the list?

Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I'm not sure that we have copies of this motion. Do we have a copy? I know that Mr. Garon read it into the record last time. I'm just not sure whether I got a copy of it. Maybe I'm mistaken. I'm just looking through my stuff here. I need a written copy in order to react to it. We did have some debate on it in the last meeting, so I know that we spoke to it, but I would like a chance to review it. Maybe we could suspend and just get a copy of it so that I could review it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Sure. It was sent around, but we can send it around again today. We'll suspend for five minutes while we do that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

We are resuming the meeting.

Mr. Garon, would you like to speak?

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

No, it's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Okay.

Mr. Turnbull, the floor is yours.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks to my colleague for moving this, and to you for the short recess to discuss it a bit among ourselves.

I think, for most of the motion, I get what Mr. Garon is getting at here. He's just looking for some clarity on the budget cycle. I think that's reasonable in terms of a request. What is a bit of a sticking point for us is that we don't believe that the minister will be able to attend with just about 48 hours' notice. That's pretty short notice for a minister who has a busy schedule and calendar. I think everyone can appreciate that the Minister of Finance has a pretty busy schedule.

This is an amendment I'd like to propose. I would just say that where it says “no later than Wednesday, September 24”, we delete that. It would then read, “That the committee request that the minister appear to answer the committee's questions so that the committee can then carry out its work properly and effectively and fulfill its mandate”.

I think that's reasonable, and that means the minister can appear at the earliest opportunity. I think there was some discussion about next week's committee meetings being a bit different because of truth and reconciliation day. Yom Kippur begins on Wednesday, as well, if I'm not mistaken, so that's a pretty important holiday. I think it's quite reasonable to assume that the following week would be a week that, especially if we're studying Bill C-4.... There was some discussion about the possibility of using some of our committee time wisely on a piece of legislation that I think there's no contention about.

I really think that, with this small change, we could get this passed. It would ensure that my Bloc colleague gets the clarity he desires, which is really just clarity on what the budget cycle will look like moving forward, and I think that's a pretty fair ask. Although there are a lot of words in the motion, I think it's a pretty simple request, and we can get him the clarity that he's looking for in due course. That's what I would suggest. I'll leave it there for the moment and see if there's any discussion. I know my colleagues will probably want to speak to this as well.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you.

Mr. Hallan, do you want to speak to the amendment?

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

No, not to the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Mr. Leitão.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, colleagues.

I completely agree with what my colleague, Mr. Turnbull, just said. The date is the issue. Today is September 22. It's unrealistic to expect the Minister of Finance to appear before the committee on September 24, two days from now, given the current situation. Last week, the minister wasn't even in Canada. He was in Europe attending meetings with our partners. It seems unreasonable to insist that he appear on Wednesday, September 24. The following week would be perfectly fine.

Knowing the Minister of Finance, I'm sure that he'll be perfectly happy to appear before this committee. It's really a matter of timing. It's really unreasonable to do so on such short notice. Afterwards, on October 6 or another date, we could have a good discussion about the budget cycle calendar. By convention, in our system, both federal and provincial governments generally table their budgets toward the end of the fiscal year. This isn't necessarily a hard and fast rule, but rather a convention. Normally, it's shortly before or after March 31.

That said, will this always be the case? Could it happen later? It would be good to have a proper discussion about this issue with the Minister of Finance. Why not? I'm sure that he would be delighted to do so.

I think that September 24 really isn't reasonable. If we give ourselves a few more days, we could have this discussion, which would be useful. The election and other factors have resulted in the 2025 budget being tabled as late as November 4. Will the 2026 budget be tabled in March or June? I don't know, but it would be good to discuss this matter with the Minister of Finance to see where he stands on this issue. I would like us to have this discussion.

We agree on practically everything. It's really just a matter of timing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Leitão.

Mr. Sawatzky, you have the floor.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

To add to this, I'm aware that the minister is currently building ties in Europe, and it's important that we allow him to build these ties at this very important time. This is not the time to pull the minister in. I think 48 hours is not very much notice for us to expect the minister, with his busy schedule and all of the important duties he has, to be able to come in. It's such short notice.

Of course, it's very important that this budget is done with due diligence, precision and care. It's not something we want to rush. I think that's why some more notice.... Of course the minister is happy to come in, but I don't think it's reasonable to do so on such short notice.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Sawatzky.

Mr. MacDonald.

[Kent MacDonald, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Good morning, everyone. It's my first time addressing the committee.

I must say I'm a little confused by the motion. You refer to there having been no public consultations done. The summertime was spent hearing from the public. I attended a consultation in Charlottetown, P.E.I. We had Dairy Farmers of P.E.I. attend and present. We had Atlantic Beef Products, the P.E.I. Aquaculture Alliance, the P.E.I. BioAlliance, the P.E.I. Seafood Processors Association and the P.E.I. Fishermen's Association. We also had the poverty elimination council present to us, as well as members of the business community.

We have done a fair lot of consultation over the summer months, since the House rose in June. I was hopeful that we would come here and start hearing witnesses presenting the submissions that we received over the summer in our binders to the finance committee. I'm disappointed that we're not at that point yet. I hope we get to that point soon.

In regard to the motion and the minister coming on the 24th, I think they've all stated what they feel about that. It's just too quick a turnaround. The minister is willing to come. He presents the budget on November 4. He'll speak to our committee, either prior to that or shortly thereafter, as we do the review of the budget bill. Otherwise, there is other business that the committee could be hearing witnesses on, and that's Bill C-4, the making life more affordable for Canadians act. I hope that the committee will consider getting down to business and getting moving on what the Canadian people expect us to be doing here on this finance committee.

Thank you.